Help on fake eight reale.

[seadancer1]

I have been told that this is a fake, and have no reason to doubt this, but would love to know where and when it was made. It is silver ( acid tested) and weighs nearly 23 grams. Note the lions facing each other...I have not seen this before and am hoping one of you guys have when looking at fakes, as I am wondering if it is an older, or even contemporary fake. The date is 1651....there is a crack running through the six which makes it appear as a five, but it is definately a six. I bought it here in Australia,some time ago from a dealer who sold yard sale ( Trash and Treasure ) items.
Thanks in advance, Brenda


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[seadancer1]

If you look closely at the crack that runs through the 6 0f the date (1651) you can see a white object inbedded in it. Using a 20x loupe, it looks to me like a minute piece of sea-shell....which makes me wonder if it is a fake made at the date on the cob, and lost in the sea.....or maybe some one threw it away in disgust.
Should I try to remove it and look under my microscope? ( I collect gems ).
Cheers, Brenda

[TNBob]

Yes, I would try to remove it carefully. It may be a base metal that is showing through. Looks like a pretty good fake to me. You could have Sedwick certify it to determine if its real. Hard to test silver content. Does anyone know how? I have a gold tester and I have been playing with it on my real coins to test their gold karat. They do vary some, not all exactly 22K, but little variation. Anyone know about their assay testing in South America in the 1600-1700s? Wonder what their fire assay procedure was to assure gold content? Some of the gold finger bars are 20K but also contraband. Are all the gold coins 22K?. Some of mine vary and they are the real deal. Wonder how accurate they were back then on Karat values. Placer gold ranges naturally from 20K to 23K with different alloys of copper and silver depending on where it was found in S.A. and North America. I think the local gold would affect the karat value of the coins they make more than strict assay testing. There was alot of fraud committed at the mints in those days in the 1650s and mint scandles resulting in countermarking.
Bob

[Zephyr]

Coins often cracked at the edges as they were being struck between the dies (usually because the coin wasn't heated up enough before striking), so that really isn't unusual for reales of that era. I'd leave that bit of shell alone until you're sure if it is an authentic coin to avoid damaging it.

Sedwick has a list of common fakes on his site:
http://www.sedwickcoins.com/

(Unfortunately, I won't be visiting his site much any more. Flashplayer crashes my machine....)

[seadancer1]

I did send a photo to Sedwick ( although not as clear as these...got a better camera now ) and he felt it was a fake, maybe from Peru.
I have never seen the two lions facing each other, either in genuine or fake, or read any description of it either. You would think that faker's would not make such a big boo boo ! Goes to show!!
The guy I got it from thought it was an old English coin !
Cheers, Brenda

[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

seadancer1 Hi Mate ! the date on the coin, the number 5 looks wrong ! the Spanish 5 looked more like a 9
hope this helps
ossy

[seadancer1]

Hi Ossy,
That would put it too late for shield design reales though.....by then (1691) they would have had the pillar design.
Cheers, Brenda

[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

Hi Brenda, what i meant is, If it was authentic, the 5 would look something like a 9, the Spanish number 5 didn't
quite look like the one on your cob !
Cheers

[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

Hi Brenda, have a look at www.sedwickcoins.com/treasureauction4
look at lot no 444, and you will see what i mean
cheers Ossy