Vero Beach Cob - One More Question 1/26/09

[Michigan Badger]

I picked this one up 5 minutes ago via ebay BUY-IT-NOW.

Now experts...what do you think?

Here's the sellers description and I'm posting the pictures. I won't have it in hand for a few days so this is all I have at this stage of the game.

Thanks ahead of time...you're all awesome!

"PICTURED ABOVE IS A BEAUTIFUL AND CHUNKY 8 REALE SPANISH COB. THIS COIN WEIGHS 24.5 GRAMS OF PURE SILVER. IT WAS FOUND METAL DETECTING AFTER A STORM IN AN AREA KNOWN FOR SPANISH TREASURE NEAR VERO BEACH, FLORIDA. THIS COIN COULD HAVE POSSIBLY BEEN FROM ONE OF THE SHIPS OF THE 1715 FLEET. MEXICO MINT IN THE REIN OF PHILLIP V OF SPAIN."

[divewrecks]

Everything looks legit for a 1715 fleet Mexico 8. Congratulations on the new addition to your collection! Now find one with a good bold 4 digit date. Hint: It will probably be a 1714 model......Stan

[Michigan Badger]

Everything looks legit for a 1715 fleet Mexico 8. Congratulations on the new addition to your collection! Now find one with a good bold 4 digit date. Hint: It will probably be a 1714 model......Stan

Thanks for the leg up on the cob

I just couldn't pass on this one especially at the price.

I've had other Veros before but none anywhere near this detail. Most were obvious shallow water abused examples.

Badger

[Michigan Badger]

Is there anyway to tell (or guess) which fleet ship they may have been on?

I mean the most likely of the group?

Thanks,

Badger

[Mackaydon]

The prescribed weight of the coin was 27.468 grams; yours, at 24.5 g. being about 11% 'light'. Taking your figure of 24.5 g. as the weight, the coin then had about 93% silver content; or about 23 g. of silver; the balance alloyed.
Don.......

[divewrecks]

No. None of the ships have even been positively identified.

Vero beach wreck sites include "Corrigan’s”, “Rio Mar”, and "Sandy Point". These aren't ship names, just names given to the wreck sites.

Stan

[Michigan Badger]

The prescribed weight of the coin was 27.468 grams; yours, at 24.5 g. being about 11% 'light'. Taking your figure of 24.5 g. as the weight, the coin then had about 93% silver content; or about 23 g. of silver; the balance alloyed.
Don.......

Thanks but wouldn't the worn-away silver account for the loss of weight?

[Michigan Badger]

No. None of the ships have even been positively identified.

Vero beach wreck sites include "Corrigan’s”, “Rio Mar”, and "Sandy Point". These aren't ship names, just names given to the wreck sites.

Stan

Thanks, I just wondered if any of the Vero sites cob types have ever been associated with any one ship.

[Mackaydon]

Michigan:
The coin could end up 'short weighted' due to extremely heavy circulation, the elements (especially sand and shallow bottom subject to rough currents), illegal 'clipping' away from the mint and/or fraud at the mint.

[makton]

Out of curiosity, how much did you pay for it?

Makton

[Michigan Badger]

Out of curiosity, how much did you pay for it?

Makton

PM sent.

MB

[realeswatcher]

"PICTURED ABOVE IS A BEAUTIFUL AND CHUNKY 8 REALE SPANISH COB. THIS COIN WEIGHS 24.5 GRAMS OF PURE SILVER. IT WAS FOUND METAL DETECTING AFTER A STORM IN AN AREA KNOWN FOR SPANISH TREASURE NEAR VERO BEACH, FLORIDA. THIS COIN COULD HAVE POSSIBLY BEEN FROM ONE OF THE SHIPS OF THE 1715 FLEET. MEXICO MINT IN THE REIN OF PHILLIP V OF SPAIN."

Was reading through some of the old posts on here and found this curious... Definitely an authentic sea-salvaged 8R. If the seller was accurate in his story/location, then an automatic assumption of "1715 Fleet" makes sense.

One problem, though... the shield tells us that this coin wasn't made until at least 1725. The (2) design elements to look at are the Austria bar, and the upper left corner of the fleur-de-lis escutcheon in relation to the lions/castles that make up the shield's upper L quadrant. Note that the Austria bar extends all way from the border of the shield to the border of the fleur-de-lis escutcheon... Also note that the upper L corner of the f-d-l escutcheon completely covers the lower R castles that would be there. These (2) diagnostics mean that it CAN'T be from earlier than 1725... From 1702 through early 1714, the Austria bar did extend all the way across in this manner BUT a slight portion of the box where that lower R castle would be DOES show. When the shield was redesigned in 1714, they tweaked it so that the escutcheon now covered over that castle box sliver... BUT at the same time, they put a notable space around the Austria bar. Around 1725, they modified the shield again, keeping that castle box fully covered over, but once again extending the Austria bar so that it connected to the shield border and escutcheon border. This is the style most usually seen on the wrecks of the 1730's (1733 Fleet, Vliegenthart, Rooswijk)... I made a composite photo that shows this progression pretty clearly...

So what was this later piece doing in "1715 territory"? I guess that's for you treasure hunters to figure out...

[divewrecks]

Nice analysis RealesWatcher - thanks for the contribution.

Stan