anyone have pictures of the different types of crosses?

[jimb]

I recently came across an open cross. So far I have not found a match. It is a coin I got from eBay. When I get it I will post a photo. It may be from Brazil. So has anyone seen an open cross on a piece of 8? So far I can not id it.

[Mackaydon]

Is the pic still shown on eBay?

[jimb]

Here is the pic. It seems that the cross is stamped over another coin, perhaps from Brazil. The writing is in hoc signo vinces, making me thing of the Knights Templars. At any rate it is strange! Way to light at 4.5 grams, however that may be wrong since I do not know if the person doing the weighing did it right or was just guessing at it. It is also 24 mm. But then again does the person who sold it know how to measure in MM?

[Mackaydon]

There is at least one coin with those words:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_hoc_signo_vinces
But that referenced coin bears little resemblance to your coin/token(?). I'll keep looking.
BTW: What makes you think 'Brazil'?
Don.......

[divewrecks]

I think it is Portuguese (cruzado?). Go to Google Books and call up this title: Ceylon Coins and Currency By Codrington H. W, H.W. Codrington. Read the top of page 91. You can try this link, but it may not work unless you paste the whole thing into your browser:

http://books.google.com/books?id=CJr...um=1&ct=result

Stan

[jimb]

I also tried Portugal and Ceylon, but could not find a match. But I think that I may not have been going back far enough. It may be as early as the year 300 or as new as 1700. I came across a gold coin that had a double cross from Portugal. It so far is the only one I could find with a double cross. However many years ago I did see one with a double cross but just cant remember where. I just reolized that this is the same coin that you are talking about. Also notice that my coin has a short cross in the center.

[Mackaydon]

You originally asked about different types of crosses. Here's one site that lists several:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross
Scroll down to "cross potent" to see 'yours'.

[cuzcosquirrel]

Has some Portugese looking parts such as the cross and the coat of arms. It might be some sort of colonial reissue.

[jimb]

Boy, this coin is one big mystery! What makes it so hard to ID is that it seems to be one coin stamped over another! A not so common pratice with old silver, but it happends. I am quessing that it is some kind of forerunner or like you said,colonial or local.

[Mackaydon]

You mentioned you bought it on eBay. How did the seller represent it?
BTW, the cross design on this piece is typical in design as those on Spanish Colonial coins, but in the 'originals' the quadrants are filled with kitty-cornered lions and castles. To me, the jury is still out as to WON it is (or was) a coin. I think it's too lite for being the same as a 2-reales, and too heavy for a 1-real.
Don....

[jimb]

I agree! I will not know until it is in my hand and I can see it's size and weight for myself. But consider this, it has a hole in it. Usually to put on a chain. Who in their right mind would put a hole in a 1 or 2 R? And then put it around their neck! Another thing that is hard to tell is, is the cross positive or negative? If negative, it has a short cross in the center and is quite crude as if it were a period fake. If positive, the cross could be an official coin.

[jimb]

This is the best match so far. Everything lines up!

[Bigcypresshunter]

Very strange coin. May I suggest move this to "What Is It." There are some very good researchers there as well that may help. It appears to have no patina. Looks to be severely cleaned.

[Mackaydon]

The obverse legend (in hoc signo vinces) goes back to the days of Constantine I and has to do with his vision seen in a cloud before his next day's victory. It means "In this sign, you will conquer". The sign was that of the cross.

The coin resembles that of John VI of Portugal, 27th King of the United Kingdom of Portugal, Brazil and Algarves (1769-1826; later changing to just King of Portugal and Algarves, since Brazil was recognized independent in 1825.

The reverse might read: IOANNES D G PORT ET ALG P REGENS.

What I don't get is the 'usual' cross is a "voided cross potent" as in BCH's pic above, but this is a "cross potent" and I can't find any of Joao's (John's) coins with it.

[An Englishman]

Hello Jimp, I'm a new member from across the pond and I think I may have an answer for you reference your strange coin.....I think you will find its French or Spanish Knights Templar coinage, search on google will show you some that has come up for auction in France lately. Hope that's some help :icon_thumright