Cob pictures. Looking for more info.

[IndianRiverSonrise]

I know some of you have seen some of these photos on the blog, but I forwarded the photos here to see what additional info I might be able to learn about it from you guys. I'm told it could be improved by further cleaning and toning. There are a number of features on it that I haven't figured out yet. And I don't have a real good match on it from my reference books. Any features you notice that you can identify or comment on, I'd like to hear about it. Its about 1.3 grams. Unfortunately some of the photos are not correctly oriented, but they were the clearest ones and I wanted to get them transferred while I had the chance. I'm especially curious about the info under the PVS.



Thanks

[cuzcosquirrel]

Looks like "PHILLIPVS II" or "PHILLIPVS IIII". It's the Spanish king's name. This is a small real, like a 1/2 real coin just by taking into account the weight.

[divewrecks]

It is a half reale. I think your particular coin says "PHILIPVS III", which is the correct spelling for the king's name. This was often spelled wrong with two L's under at least one assayer.

Philip III died in 1621 so coinage may have not changed to reflect Philip IV until the following year. Under this logic I studied coins attributed to the years from 1598 (when Philip III took the throne) through 1621. Basic design elements indicated Potosi. Note: Lima was not in operation during Philip III's reign.

Potosi 1/2 reales minted between 1598-1621 were under several different assayers. Most 1/2 reales coins carried the mint and/or assayer's initial on the obverse (monogram) side. The locations and combinations of these marks make for many different types and sub-types. Your coin has neither mint nor assayer in the usual position (to the immediate left and right of the monogram). Sewall Menzel's book "Cobs, Pieces of Eight and Treasure Coins" (highly recommended) shows one such example attributed to assayer T (1618-1623). Menzel calls it a "Type II, Po-199" in his identification system. It is pictured on Page 280. The coin picture is small, and shows no legend to speak of, but it is obvious that the circle of dots comes so close to the left side of the monogram that it leaves no room for the striking of an assayer or mint mark.

I believe your coin is somewhat scarce and has nice detail on the monogram side as compared to most salvaged 1/2 reale coins. Perhaps most of its life has been spent in the ground. Nice coin.

Stan

[IndianRiverSonrise]

It is a half reale. I think your particular coin says "PHILIPVS III", which is the correct spelling for the king's name. This was often spelled wrong with two L's under at least one assayer.

Philip III died in 1621 so coinage may have not changed to reflect Philip IV until the following year. Under this logic I studied coins attributed to the years from 1598 (when Philip III took the throne) through 1621. Basic design elements indicated Potosi. Note: Lima was not in operation during Philip III's reign.

Potosi 1/2 reales minted between 1598-1621 were under several different assayers. Most 1/2 reales coins carried the mint and/or assayer's initial on the obverse (monogram) side. The locations and combinations of these marks make for many different types and sub-types. Your coin has neither mint nor assayer in the usual position (to the immediate left and right of the monogram). Sewall Menzel's book "Cobs, Pieces of Eight and Treasure Coins" (highly recommended) shows one such example attributed to assayer T (1618-1623). Menzel calls it a "Type II, Po-199" in his identification system. It is pictured on Page 280. The coin picture is small, and shows no legend to speak of, but it is obvious that the circle of dots comes so close to the left side of the monogram that it leaves no room for the striking of an assayer or mint mark.

I believe your coin is somewhat scarce and has nice detail on the monogram side as compared to most salvaged 1/2 reale coins. Perhaps most of its life has been spent in the ground. Nice coin.

Stan

Thanks Stan.

I found a picture of another Felipe III coin from Potosi that also shows an "S" that looks very much like an eight, as does the one on this half. The S one on this half seems doubled to me.

And I also found a picture of a Felipe III Potosi half reale on which the mongram is remarkably similar.

It looks like you really nailed it.

I like how clear some of this coin is. It is almost like you can see where the die bounced when it was struck or something. Or maybe my imagination is running away with me.

Thanks again.

[divewrecks]

I think the "S" overstamp is a fix of some kind, possibly an incorrect or reversed letter. Assayer T (1618-1623) was Juan Ximenez de Tapia, an assayer who has gained some notoriety in numismatic circles from the belief that he was dislexic. His coins have many characters that are reveresed or otherwise in error. This is well documented because of his stamp being on many 1622 fleet (Atocha) coins.

Stan

[divewrecks]

Sometimes what looks like a double strike is really where an existing die is "sharpened" (if you will) after having become worn. That is probably the effect you are seeing on the cross. Note that the adjacent castles and lions do not seem to show double strike with such obvious displacement. The features in the castles and lions were too small to "refresh" with simple hand tools.

Stan

[IndianRiverSonrise]

Sometimes what looks like a double strike is really where an existing die is "sharpened" (if you will) after having become worn. That is probably the effect you are seeing on the cross. Note that the adjacent castles and lions do not seem to show double strike with such obvious displacement. The features in the castles and lions were too small to "refresh" with simple hand tools.

Stan

Good info. Thanks again.