Which would be worth more???

[Bobbcue]

A reale coin cut into "Pieces of Eight"

or a whole eight reals coin

[divewrecks]

Unless you are talking about a whole coin of relatively rare date or premium condition, the sum of the cut pieces would likely be worth more to colonial coin collectors. I'm not talking about coins cut in modern times (put away the hacksaw), but coins cut during the colonial period to produce change. To be considered as such by collectors they must have some kind of provenance or story behind them. If they were say found by a trusted metal detectorist in an area of known historical significance that could be considered as a reasonable story. Unfortunately, a story is only as reliable as its source, and I have seen some pieces on Ebay that I certainly wouldn't trust. Have you found some cut pieces in your searching?

Stan

[Bobbcue]

Thanks for your answer. There are many unscrupulous people out there. How would you know if someone cut a reale and passed it off as "pieces of eight"

[divewrecks]

Unfortunately, there is no reliable means to determine authenticity. That's where established provenance or a documentable find comes in. Here are some recent Ebay pieces that have "stories" associated with them.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=300565448905

http://cgi.ebay.com/Revolutionary-Wa...-/220802212044

Stan

[Digger54]

Thanks for your answer. There are many unscrupulous people out there. How would you know if someone cut a reale and passed it off as "pieces of eight"

I think they would have a hard time convincing anyone that they found all eight pieces. The chances of finding all eight pieces to the same coin by a digger would have to be astronomical at best. The original purpose of cutting a coin was to make change. The likelyhood that the coin was cut up but all pieces retained by the owner and lost in one location is an extreme long shot.

[Bobbcue]

Hi,
There is an old saying... "CAVEAT EMPTOR" which means let the buyer beware. I used Photoshop to cut up a picture of the coin.
Let say someone tries to sell one piece that he cut and he said he found it in NC. while metal detecting. That sounds like its real deal.

[Wayne P]

Think Digger summed it up. It would be hard to imagine all 8 pieces being located together. Single segments more likely. Divewrecks makes a strong point about authenticy and providence. I always list where and when I find something getting as much history and info as possible. While I don't sell my finds future generations may not have my passion and so they will at least be able to get the most for these treasured finds I made.

[divewrecks]

I always list where and when I find something getting as much history and info as possible. While I don't sell my finds future generations may not have my passion and so they will at least be able to get the most for these treasured finds I made.

That's what I was talking about. Having the finder's written notes is about as good as having a certificate of authenticity. Certainly will lend to the plausibility of the story...

Stan

[Iron Patch]

Thanks for your answer. There are many unscrupulous people out there. How would you know if someone cut a reale and passed it off as "pieces of eight"

The edge would be way to shiny so it would be obvious it was a new cut.

The 8 pieces added up would most likely sell for more, but they do because people can't and aren't cutting them to sell.

[divewrecks]

The edge would be way to shiny so it would be obvious it was a new cut.

Edges can be buffed to remove striations from cutting and then the coin artificially aged using chemical toners. This is easier than it sounds if you know what you are doing.

Stan

[Iron Patch]

The edge would be way to shiny so it would be obvious it was a new cut.

Edges can be buffed to remove striations from cutting and then the coin artificially aged using chemical toners. This is easier than it sounds if you know what you are doing.

Stan

The effort needed would far outweigh the montary gain so the fact it can be done is pretty much irrelevant.

[realeswatcher]

I think they would have a hard time convincing anyone that they found all eight pieces. The chances of finding all eight pieces to the same coin by a digger would have to be astronomical at best. The original purpose of cutting a coin was to make change. The likelyhood that the coin was cut up but all pieces retained by the owner and lost in one location is an extreme long shot.

True, BUT you would never sell it in intact... you would pass them one by one to different people...

The effort needed would far outweigh the montary gain so the fact it can be done is pretty much irrelevant.

Not true, so long as we're talking about EITHER a true pillar-style OR a portrait 8R (aka the "Modified Pillar" design) ... A so-so Mexico Charles III portrait 8R had be had for about $50-65... Without much difficulty, you could get $30-40 per individual cut piece on eBay.

Personally, unless I was quite confident of the background of a cut piece, I would steer clear... I'll stick to full (uncut) Spanish colonial 8 Reales or Spain "pistareen" 2 Reales and assume they came from a big-spender colonist :->

[Iron Patch]

I think they would have a hard time convincing anyone that they found all eight pieces. The chances of finding all eight pieces to the same coin by a digger would have to be astronomical at best. The original purpose of cutting a coin was to make change. The likelyhood that the coin was cut up but all pieces retained by the owner and lost in one location is an extreme long shot.

True, BUT you would never sell it in intact... you would pass them one by one to different people...

The effort needed would far outweigh the montary gain so the fact it can be done is pretty much irrelevant.

Not true, so long as we're talking about EITHER a true pillar-style OR a portrait 8R (aka the "Modified Pillar" design) ... A so-so Mexico Charles III portrait 8R had be had for about $50-65... Without much difficulty, you could get $30-40 per individual cut piece on eBay.

If it was that easy to turn $50 into $280 and do it non stop I think you'd see someone doing it. But we can agree to disagree.

[divewrecks]

If it was that easy to turn $50 into $280 and do it non stop I think you'd see someone doing it. But we can agree to disagree.

These pieces regularly appear on Ebay, so it DOES happen with some degree of frequency.

Stan

[Iron Patch]

If it was that easy to turn $50 into $280 and do it non stop I think you'd see someone doing it. But we can agree to disagree.

These pieces regularly appear on Ebay, so it DOES happen with some degree of frequency.

Stan

How do you know they are recent cuts?

[realeswatcher]

If it was that easy to turn $50 into $280 and do it non stop I think you'd see someone doing it. But we can agree to disagree.

These pieces regularly appear on Ebay, so it DOES happen with some degree of frequency.

Stan

How do you know they are recent cuts?

I think Stan may have meant that pieces which are purported to be authentic regularly appear on eBay (which they do... though I'd say more quarter-cuts of pistareens show up than eighth-cuts of 8R coins). Of course, the cynical question to ask would be "How do you know they AREN'T recent cuts?"...

On topic, see this lot from the most recent Sedwick auction. It didn't sell, but then again, he was telling us that they were modern fabrications (from authentic shipwreck pillar 8R). To be fair, they look pretty good:

http://www.icollector.com/Promotiona...lars_i10431101



Compare that to this lot... I think these went for kind of wacky money, but still worth noting:

http://www.icollector.com/Lot-of-2-e...1808_i10432022

[Iron Patch]

If it was that easy to turn $50 into $280 and do it non stop I think you'd see someone doing it. But we can agree to disagree.

These pieces regularly appear on Ebay, so it DOES happen with some degree of frequency.

Stan

How do you know they are recent cuts?

I think Stan may have meant that pieces which are purported to be authentic regularly appear on eBay (which they do... though I'd say more quarter-cuts of pistareens show up than eighth-cuts of 8R coins). Of course, the cynical question to ask would be "How do you know they AREN'T recent cuts?"...

On topic, see this lot from the most recent Sedwick auction. It didn't sell, but then again, he was telling us that they were modern fabrications (from authentic shipwreck pillar 8R). To be fair, they look pretty good:

http://www.icollector.com/Promotiona...lars_i10431101



Compare that to this lot... I think these went for kind of wacky money, but still worth noting:

http://www.icollector.com/Lot-of-2-e...1808_i10432022

Go figure it's not a scammer doing it, it's Sedwick! I'm sure the idea won't be lost on the first unscrupulous person to agree they look good too. That just makes no sense to me why they would cut 8 reales. That also would be the proof, cutting them makes more money because there's no question it's what it's about. I certainly wouldn't buy a modern cut piece.

[Bobbcue]

Thanks guys for your response...interesting...

[Digger54]

[quote=realeswatcher ]

I think they would have a hard time convincing anyone that they found all eight pieces. The chances of finding all eight pieces to the same coin by a digger would have to be astronomical at best. The original purpose of cutting a coin was to make change. The likelyhood that the coin was cut up but all pieces retained by the owner and lost in one location is an extreme long shot.

True, BUT you would never sell it in intact... you would pass them one by one to different people...

Good point that I did not consider as I assumed the monetary value of a single wedge was not significant by itself as a single sale.

If the channel of sales was through Ebay then the seller's history is there to be reviewed and a savy buyer might see the red flag.

[realeswatcher]

I couldn't help but think of this thread in seeing these the past week or so...

http://www.ebay.com/csc/Coins-Paper-...=p3286.c0.m283

with more up currently.