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  1. #16
    us
    Tuberale

    May 2010
    Portland, Oregon
    White's Coinmaster Pro
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    Re: 1618 8 real copy (Was Information please. Cobs.)

    Thanks, bigcypresshunter. I'm just as gullible as the next guy. I probably would have bought the copy, just to have an idea of what they looked like.

  2. #17
    us
    Dec 2004
    South Florida
    70's Whites TM Amphibian, HH Pulse, Ace 250
    24,061
    857 times
    Beach and Shallow Water Hunting

    Re: 1618 8 real copy (Was Information please. Cobs.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Tuberale
    Thanks, bigcypresshunter. I'm just as gullible as the next guy. I probably would have bought the copy, just to have an idea of what they looked like.
    I dont have them all rotated correctly but if you study them carefully you will see they are all identical. No two real cobs can be identical because they are cut in odd sizes and hand stamped..



    Notice the 6th pic down found by TN member Beach Whale has a hole in it. Look carefully you will see all the others have the same mark in the same place where the hole was because they were cast from the same pattern. You will see the hole (filled in) in your correctly rotated cob in the upper right. I thought this was interesting.

  3. #18
    us
    Tuberale

    May 2010
    Portland, Oregon
    White's Coinmaster Pro
    2,986
    20 times

    Re: 1618 8 real copy (Was Information please. Cobs.)

    I see it, bigcypresshunter. That is a little more than just, uh, accidental.

  4. #19
    us
    Dec 2004
    South Florida
    70's Whites TM Amphibian, HH Pulse, Ace 250
    24,061
    857 times
    Beach and Shallow Water Hunting

    Re: 1618 8 real copy (Was Information please. Cobs.)

    These guys here on this forum are pretty good, Im still learning about cobs but here is Sedwicks database of known fakes. It has probably been posted here before. http://www.sedwickcoins.com/fake_cobs.htm

    Click image for larger version. 

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  5. #20
    us
    Tuberale

    May 2010
    Portland, Oregon
    White's Coinmaster Pro
    2,986
    20 times

    Re: 1618 8 real copy (Was Information please. Cobs.)

    Thanks again, bigcypresshunter. I've seen that photo before, probably in a history book I've got about the Spanish in the New World.

    I know most valuable coins have had copies made of them, most recently by the Chinese. Glad those are now supposed to have COPY or REPLICA stamped on them.

    I'm wondering whether I need to somehow stamp that information on my fake cob now. Anyone have an idea?

  6. #21
    us
    Aug 2008
    460
    15 times

    Re: 1618 8 real copy (Was Information please. Cobs.)

    I think that this replica is so far off from the original that it is unnecessary.

    I always got around the need by having a bail physicly attached to the coin.

    As compared to Chinese fake US coins, I think cob faking is a pretty low priority.

    The only real incidents are the guys selling the fakes on ebay and the issue with a treasure hunting group selling fake gold escudo cobs about a decade ago.

  7. #22
    Charter Member

    Oct 2004
    N. San Diego area (Pic of my two best 'finds')
    Minelab Explorer
    12,034
    1789 times
    Research and History
    Honorable Mentions (2)

    Re: 1618 8 real copy (Was Information please. Cobs.)

    "The manufacture in the United States, or the importation into the United States, for introduction into OR THE DISTRIBUTION IN COMMERCE (emphasis added) of any imitation numismatic item which is not plainly and permanently marked “copy”, is unlawful and is an unfair or deceptive act or practice in commerce under the Federal Trade Commission Act" [15 U.S.C. 41 et seq.].
    Holding a fake is not illegal, but attempting to sell one that is NOT in compliance with the Hobby Protection Act is illegal.

    Don.....

  8. #23
    us
    Sep 2010
    102
    9 times

    Re: 1618 8 real copy (Was Information please. Cobs.)


  9. #24
    us
    Sep 2010
    102
    9 times

    Re: 1618 8 real copy (Was Information please. Cobs.)

    Quote Originally Posted by cuzcosquirrel
    As compared to Chinese fake US coins, I think cob faking is a pretty low priority.

    The only real incidents are the guys selling the fakes on ebay and the issue with a treasure hunting group selling fake gold escudo cobs about a decade ago.
    Eh... don't be so sure about that. Among others, there is of course the commonly seen "wristwatch", which shows up with varying dates... Here is a 1667 version from this past week, sold from the Philippines:
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/120802990206

    Another specimen of the same fake is running right now from a seller in Hong Kong:
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/260886798819

    Note that the seller of that 2nd piece (in addition to offering a bunch of the other usual suspects - obvious pillar 8R rare dates/counterstamps, etc.) had this one up last week. I hadn't seen this one before (or maybe I have, and didn't catch it...):
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/260881160032


  10. #25
    us
    Aug 2008
    460
    15 times

    Re: 1618 8 real copy (Was Information please. Cobs.)

    That would be the guys selling the fakes on ebay.

  11. #26
    us
    Sep 2010
    102
    9 times

    Re: 1618 8 real copy (Was Information please. Cobs.)

    Quote Originally Posted by cuzcosquirrel
    That would be the guys selling the fakes on ebay.
    I meant it in regards to the first part of that, that as compared to the Chinese faking of U.S. coins, (Asian) production of fake cobs isn't a priority... If you want to stretch it out from solely cobs to a wider Spanish coinage field which includes pillar 8 Reales, it's DEFINITELY a priority. Basically EVERYTHING that China has some familiarity with from their history is now getting a noticeable amount of the Madame Tussaud's treatment - Pillar 8R (tons), also cobs, portrait 8R British trade dollars, French Indochina piastres, plus anything big, silver, and Chinese (ranging from your basic Fat Man and Junk dollars up into rarer types). You are also seeing lots of rather high-quality fake German States thalers, Swiss 5Fr and shooting thalers, etc - basically, any popular series they think they can forge well. I honestly think they may be hitting the non-U.S. stuff more now b/c more casual collectors (at least here in the U.S.) aren't quite as familiar with diagnosing it yet.

    Point being, there is LOADS of this stuff filtering out on eBay, and eBay really does form a significant portion of where people are getting their coins (including cobs)... in particular world coins, which people in many areas don't have local suppliers for.

    NOW.... about that "treasure hunting group selling fake gold escudo cobs about a decade ago"... DO tell. Any further info on that... and even better, any photos of examples of their work??

    In terms of other domestic faking operations (and I won't include the production of REALLY good-quality intended replicas which DON'T clearly display COPY in the manner "mackaydon" mentioned... it's not lost on the distributors of such things that these pieces sometimes get turned around as genuine to uninitiated end buyers)... You of course read cryptic stories here and there alluding to certain salvage outfits casting managed quantities of sea-salvaged pieces.. and NOT as replicas. Of course, that's all apocryphal... As had been discussed on here in the past, there was a reseller outfit in the 90's that was selling framed "shipwreck" pieces... Since that thread was last active, I got to examine, in hand, a supposed 1715 Fleet 8 Reales that turned out to be from this same outfit. It came with a facsimile of the Fisher-style Cobb Coin Co. cert that even included a tracing, printed number, and stamped seal... though if you look very closely, NOT Fisher's official seal, it was their company name! The coin itself? Highly suspect...


  12. #27
    us
    Aug 2008
    460
    15 times

    Re: 1618 8 real copy (Was Information please. Cobs.)

    There's a partially buffed out file line on the edge of that coin.

  13. #28
    us
    Sep 2010
    102
    9 times

    Re: 1618 8 real copy (Was Information please. Cobs.)

    Yuppers... AND an edge seam (visible in the first pic).

  14. #29
    us
    Dec 2004
    South Florida
    70's Whites TM Amphibian, HH Pulse, Ace 250
    24,061
    857 times
    Beach and Shallow Water Hunting

    Re: 1618 8 real copy (Was Information please. Cobs.)

    There are an alarming amount of fakes showing up. In this case however its kinda obvious. I am still wondering if this replica is silver?

  15. #30
    us
    Tuberale

    May 2010
    Portland, Oregon
    White's Coinmaster Pro
    2,986
    20 times

    Re: 1618 8 real copy (Was Information please. Cobs.)

    There is, I suppose, always the chance that this is one of Mel Fischer's re-creations from the Atocha, based on the silver bar he recovered from the Nuestra de Atocha to make replicas of. But those were supposed to have had Certificates of Authenticity attached to them. This one, of course, does not have that certificate. But it could, I suppose, be an unattributed replica. Has anyone here actually purchased one of the replica silver Piece of Eight produced from one of the Atocha silver bars?

    I'll try to go on-line and see if anyone has actually posted a photograph of those replicas.

 

 
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