Mar 01, 2012, 02:00 PM
Atocha 8 Reales.
Hello, I'm Ben. I've been interested in all things old and nautical for a while now. Anything from Nelson to pre 10th century Viking traders. I love stories of old treasure fleets and recently decided to keep an eye out for any "treasures" I might like to own. As I've got no experience, it's always going to be a risk buying from anything other than a reputable dealer, so I though I should sign-up for some help in the event I see something interesting.
What could be more interesting than an Atocha 1622 silver cob ay? There was recently a coin, that if genuine, was going for a good price, especially considering the exchange rate at the moment (I live in UK). It came with the card denoting the coin number, reign, etc. but more importantly, no Certificate of Authenticity. Rightly so, I was warned off it by a couple of helpful members of this community.
Here is the link to the item that eventually sold for $£368- http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/390394290....84.m1423.l2649
The seller does seem like a reputable dealer (http://catalinacoin.com/) with lot's of positive feedback and a 7-day returns policy, so you could get a good look at it before deciding to whether keep it. I don't have that luxury being in the UK and it would have been a chore to get in touch with them.
I know the pictures aren't much to go by but the condition did look too good to be true for me considering the price these things can go for and looking through the same seller's older auctions, I noticed they have had similar coins with COA's.
At first I thought this might suggest the coin is real, until I looked closer at the label. The one with the COA has little "nodules" (I have no idea how else to describe them) from where the label has been torn away and the one without the COA did not. Also the print looks slightly different, mainly the font (most noticeable in the "2" and "P").
May or may not be significant, I don't know. They're both from the same year though and it just seemed like another reason to stay clear.
I realise these posts probably get tedious for long time members but I've read all of the existing ones and though interesting, the auctions have all expired and the pictures no longer exist. I would love to hear some of your thoughts on this and it would be valuable knowledge to someone like me.
Here are the photos of the coin in question and the coin's label from the one with no COA. The 3rd is the label from the coin with a COA, for comparison.
Sorry for the long post. Thanks, Ben.
Mar 01, 2012 02:00 PM
Mar 01, 2012, 02:33 PM
Re: Atocha 8 Reales.
I saw your post on the shipwreck forum but haven't had a chance to reply.
The small typed info sheet with the coin is part of the COA. It was a preliminary assessment of the coin prior to the coin being issued a full COA. The TSI number was issued just after cleaning and would continue forever after no matter what happened to the full COA. We found that the colorful story on the COA's were great but had a tendency to get separated from the coin either by accident or on purpose to use as a template for another maybe....non official coin. A beach find perhaps or reproduction.
That top number and the location number at the bottom are a double set of safeguards for identification.
All coin numbers were recorded and are in files somewhere. After TSI or Treasure Salvos Incorporated, was dissolved, I don't know where the files went. I do know that the Fisher family have files that they use for authenticating coins that come to them without the big COA and that COA's do get reissued. The coin in you post looks like a nice one and as long as that little piece of paper is there you should have no problem getting a reissued COA.
Mar 02, 2012, 07:34 AM
Re: Atocha 8 Reales.
Hey Donovan, Thank you for the reply.
Am I correct in assuming that the files they have on record, would contain a picture of the coin linked to the info sheet? If so, then I agree,
the info slip safeguards the identification of the coin. If not, it seems to me that any ID of the coin without a photo could be from any coin with similar information (assayer, mint etc.), rendering it worthless. I'm sure that the slips aren't hard to duplicate either, so you could buy a box of the repos made from the bullion and sell them as the real deal.
The info slip didn't look the same as others I've seen too and that was of concern to me.
Sorry if I sound a little sceptical, my concern would be lessened if I was in the US. The combination of expensive postal costs and no international returns make the purchase more of a gamble.
Do you know the cost and process of having a new COA issued for a coin like this?
Thanks again, Ben.
Mar 31, 2013, 07:24 PM
Should go to the Mel Fisher Museum What a site
Mar 31, 2013, 07:42 PM
Yes you should contact Mel Fisher to check then numbers and the picture.
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