Need some help identifying a shipwreck piece

[jf221]

[THIS THREAD HAS BEEN SOLVED]

Hello TreasureNet community,

I've recently posted this same query to another forum and this was one of the places to which I was referred that might yield better results in my identification of this piece that I came across in an old collection of mine. I will, more or less, relay to you all what I've already said about the piece in the last forum verbatim. Upon some amateur research it appears that this may be a Spanish 4 or 8 reales piece or a cob of sorts (hence the reason for being directed here).

I have come across a few images that resemble my piece (to my knowledge there have been many variants of these pieces throughout history based on reigning king, etc.) some of which are found here and here.

I took the piece to a local coin shop and determined that it is, in fact, silver. They were unable to determine its history since, admittedly, there isn't a ton to work with, unfortunately. It was given to me by a relative who found it diving off the coast of the Bahamas, if that helps.

I plan on bringing it around to other shops/specialists in my area (within 25 miles) if I can find them. If any of you have any expertise in these pieces, I would appreciate the input. Or rather, if anyone can refer me to another source for information that would be wonderful too.

Thanks!

 

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[realeswatcher]

OK, let's get out the magic 8 ball... In lieu of that, pictures may possibly perhaps be helpful.

 

[Diver_Down]

8 reale Mexico City minted during the reign of King Philip V. Date elements might be deciphered but better photos of the shield side is necessary.

RW - You missed the link to the photos.

 

[jf221]

OK, let's get out the magic 8 ball... In lieu of that, pictures may possibly perhaps be helpful.

My text "this piece" links to it where I have written "...my identification of this piece that I came across..."

 

[jf221]

Here is another photo of the crowned shield side. This was taken with a better camera (12MP), but not much better (the first was taken with my phone's 8MP camera).

 

[realeswatcher]

Indeed I did! Didn't notice it was linked it the text...

Mexico, 1714 or 1715 (shield of 1714-24, cross side/lions of 1702-15). Two fleurs instead of one for Burgundy is usually isolated as 1714 (one for 1715), but I'm not really convinced that that's always the case. 1714 or 15 to be safe. That dating, of course, is typically indicative of 1715 Fleet...

Denomination, as Diver_down said, is 8R, not 4R... Note that the "8" is visible to the right of the shield (shown in the first shield-side pic). If that wasn't there, of course weight (and to some extent diameter, plus the relative dimension of the detail) would determine it.

 

[jf221]

Ah, yes, thank you realeswatcher and Diver_Down! After inspecting some images of the 1714-15 fleet piece, this appears to be what I have. Now, I did come across this rather disconcerting thread: http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/spanish-cobs/98275-beware-fake-1715-fleet-silver-8-reale-ebay.html

I'm not sure if there is any way to be sure by simply inspecting my pictures, but if anyone can weigh in on the potential authenticity of my piece, I'd appreciate it (you never know if you can trust the word of your relatives...).

 

[realeswatcher]

Nothing about your piece indicates replica/cast... looks like perfectly genuine sea-salvage. Now, whether it was indeed found diving in the Bahamas or not... "eh". Looks more Ft. Pierce to me... but who knows.

 

[jf221]

Based on my perusing of the replica thread, it sounds like the replicas aren't entirely silver, if any silver at all. When my local coin dealer tested its composition, he said the results overwhelmingly suggested that this was, in fact, silver (using an acid test). Furthermore, it feels like an awfully "soft" metal to me, as I know silver is.

If this is, in fact, an authentic piece, how much value might it carry (based on its grade, etc.)?

 

[GatorBoy]

Here is some from Fort Pierce and Vero and Sebastian.

 

[GatorBoy]

I would estimate your cob at around $250
Jmo

 

[realeswatcher]

$250 for a rather poorly-struck piece of a common type with moderate sea-wear and no particular shipwreck pedigree? That's way, way high.

You can search eBay's Coins section for terms like Mexico cob reales or 1715 Fleet for some comparison, keeping in mind the traits I noted.

 

[GatorBoy]

You will also have to take into account that many fakes are all over eBay.. and disregard the prices on those.
To use eBay as a standard for anything is a very sketchy proposition.
Use Sedwick for real auction prices on authentic treasure coins.
Also.. 1715 fleet .. is what I believe that coin is... an 8 reales.
Look at prices of 1715 fleet 8 reales.
I know you said off the Bahamas ..but that doesn't quite fit.

 

[jf221]

At this point I'm going to venture a guess, based on what I've gathered here and elsewhere, that this was probably not found in the Bahamas at all. In fact, it could very well be that I'm remembering incorrectly - perhaps confounding the story of the piece with another anecdote I was told at the time (it was about 8 years ago). Come to think of it, Ft. Pierce is awfully close to where my relatives were living at the time.

On that note, is there any way to acquire some sort of specialist's authentication/certification? I see that Daniel Sedwick offers an authentication/certification service. Does anyone have any experience with this - i.e. would it be worth the $50 + postage?

 

[GatorBoy]

That or Mel Fisher.
Having it authenticated will be well worth it..and will add Provinance to the piece.
Both of those things are very important to prospective buyers if the time comes you decide to sell.
It's a very nice artifact of the 1715 fleet and likely came from a wreck minutes from my home.
Congratulations on it and please look me up if you decide to sell it.

 

[Uncle Jeff]

Please mark your topic as SOLVED if you you think it has been solved JF221, Only the original poster can do so