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Thread: Need help with find

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  1. #16
    Charter Member
    us
    Dec 2008
    St. Augustine, FL
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    1501 times
    Quote Originally Posted by AARC View Post
    I thought the same... BUT... I think PRE Atocha.. perhaps Margarita.

    The reason I say this is the bezel and lack of "TSI" mark.
    Margarita and Atocha sank in the same year - 1622. There really is no way to prove any provenance. My guess of Atocha is just based on the time period the piece was minted and the prevalence of the market saturation with Atocha pieces. Regardless of the origin of the wreck it was salvaged from, it is a legit piece of 8. And if my interpretation of the assayer mark is correct, then it is a rare piece.
    AARC likes this.

  2. #17
    us
    ARC

    Aug 2014
    Bahia Espiritu Santo de Tampa - La Florida
    JW 8X V.2 - ML X2 - VP 580
    19,407
    44197 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by Diver_Down View Post
    Margarita and Atocha sank in the same year - 1622. There really is no way to prove any provenance. My guess of Atocha is just based on the time period the piece was minted and the prevalence of the market saturation with Atocha pieces. Regardless of the origin of the wreck it was salvaged from, it is a legit piece of 8. And if my interpretation of the assayer mark is correct, then it is a rare piece.
    I know when they went down. lol ... heh

    That is not what I was saying... ITS NOT an Atocha piece... Unless its a copy made from the bars... otherwise it would definitely be marked.

    Margartita was found a whole 5 years before Atocha... the bezels were one offed in those days by only a few local guys.

    I do know a little about Mel's stuff... been a fan since I was a kid.

    notice my avatar.

    <----------
    Have permission... Fill holes... Dispose of trash. - The Random Chat Thread - http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/ev...l-welcome.html

  3. #18
    us
    Aug 2008
    509
    61 times
    It's supposed to be a 1622 wreck coin, from what I can see, like a grade 2 coin. It's hard to interpret what is going on with the bezel and the coin. I think he is saying that the bezel setting does not match the ones put on Fisher recovery coins. It's going to be hard to get down to the details based on the picture, and finding it on the beach. Having the gold purity mark struck on the flat metal makes it look like a really quick job someone did. I would think if it was one of the generic fakes, it would have more detail in the face. It has an odd ticking outline to the reverse design, and these outlines tend to date the coins. I'll go look it up.

  4. #19
    us
    Dennis

    Sep 2013
    Mt Plymouth, Fl
    Cz20/21 cz21 Whites pi pro Garrett at pro
    11
    14 times
    Beach and Shallow Water Hunting
    I have a couple questions if you don’t mind. What is the best grade? Would it be 1. And on the assayed, If it’s not a Q then it would be an O, is there an assayed with an O? I thank you and everyone for there help. Although I have a cob set in gold from an Atocha silver bar, I never found one, let alone in a gold bezel. Thanks again Dennis

  5. #20
    us
    Aug 2008
    509
    61 times
    It's tending to line up with assayer Q. Its hard to see some of the parts. There would not be a V next to the P from RVM if it was a T coin. The low I from india on the reverse lines up almost perfectly with a dated T coin I looked at from 1619. It's close to the M in the crown variety, of which some were found on the Atocha (S-P17; KM-10; CT-124) but there are a number of differences, as in the cross is bent the other way and the bottom of the castle is not covered up. Tails on the lions look correct, but the elements point it as being from a different set of dies, using some of the same punches Q used.

    1616-1617 It lines up with assayer Q. Kind of a rare coin.

    Look at some old Sedwick catalogs and you will find a variety of them, including one that is pretty close to this.

    Last edited by cuzcosquirrel; Jun 30, 2019 at 03:39 PM.
    Diver_Down likes this.

  6. #21
    us
    Dennis

    Sep 2013
    Mt Plymouth, Fl
    Cz20/21 cz21 Whites pi pro Garrett at pro
    11
    14 times
    Beach and Shallow Water Hunting
    Thanks for your help. Much appreciated, but complicated to me.
    AARC likes this.

  7. #22
    us
    ARC

    Aug 2014
    Bahia Espiritu Santo de Tampa - La Florida
    JW 8X V.2 - ML X2 - VP 580
    19,407
    44197 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by cuzcosquirrel View Post
    It's tending to line up with assayer Q. Its hard to see some of the parts. There would not be a V next to the P from RVM if it was a T coin. The low I from india on the reverse lines up almost perfectly with a dated T coin I looked at from 1619. It's close to the M in the crown variety, of which some were found on the Atocha (S-P17; KM-10; CT-124) but there are a number of differences, as in the cross is bent the other way and the bottom of the castle is not covered up. Tails on the lions look correct, but the elements point it as being from a different set of dies, using some of the same punches Q used.

    1616-1617 It lines up with assayer Q. Kind of a rare coin.

    Look at some old Sedwick catalogs and you will find a variety of them, including one that is pretty close to this.

    "The low I from india on the reverse " - ? ? ?
    Have permission... Fill holes... Dispose of trash. - The Random Chat Thread - http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/ev...l-welcome.html

  8. #23
    us
    Aug 2008
    509
    61 times
    Quote Originally Posted by AARC View Post
    "The low I from india on the reverse " - ? ? ?
    The I from India is very low on both Q and T's coins in about the 4 o'clock position on the reverse, so it almost hits the ticking. The wide flaring of the ticking outline around the center cross and bendets on the reverse is also close to one of his die patterns. These tick marks on some coin dies were stamped in rather quickly and crudely with a curved tool that had about 20 marks on its curved surface. It you went off with one side of the punch, they wouldn't line up with the other side, and it would flare out at the end, to leave a noticeable gap. Two of the things Q did a lot also is to cover up part of the lower right castle on the reverse, cutting the bendet across the bottom of it, or stamping it over the bendet, losing the bottom. He also used the ticking tool really close to the edges of the bendets, to get a decent circle that lined up with either side of the end of the punching tool.
    Last edited by cuzcosquirrel; Jun 30, 2019 at 05:37 PM.

  9. #24
    Charter Member
    us
    Tommy

    Dec 2015
    Ann Arbor
    Equinox 800
    21,006
    25847 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Honorable Mentions (2)
    Cool find
    Hawks88 likes this.
    Still Available ​Approved TreasureNet Stickers
    .:: $3.00 for 11" X 3" Bumper Sticker ::.
    .:: $2.25 for 1" x 4" Detector Sticker ::.
    (Free Shipping)


    SEE: TreasureNet Bumper Stickers

  10. #25
    Charter Member
    us
    Tommy

    Dec 2015
    Ann Arbor
    Equinox 800
    21,006
    25847 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Honorable Mentions (2)
    Welcome to tnet
    Still Available ​Approved TreasureNet Stickers
    .:: $3.00 for 11" X 3" Bumper Sticker ::.
    .:: $2.25 for 1" x 4" Detector Sticker ::.
    (Free Shipping)


    SEE: TreasureNet Bumper Stickers

  11. #26
    Charter Member
    us
    Dig everything!

    Sep 2018
    Between Half Reale Beach and Nuestra Seflora de Las Nieves
    Garrett, Equinox 800
    75
    84 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    @djbr54 great find! If you don’t mind how deep was this? Thanks
    “Fortune favors the prepared mind.” ― Louis Pasteur

  12. #27
    us
    Dennis

    Sep 2013
    Mt Plymouth, Fl
    Cz20/21 cz21 Whites pi pro Garrett at pro
    11
    14 times
    Beach and Shallow Water Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by FloridaSon View Post
    @djbr54 great find! If you don’t mind how deep was this? Thanks
    It was around 6” deep and registered a 14 on the equinox. Must be because of the gold around the coin.
    FloridaSon likes this.

  13. #28
    us
    TEA...taxed enough already

    Oct 2005
    San Diego California
    Bounty Hunter
    352
    95 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting

    2 reale mounted

    Here is a MF 2 reale
    grade 1 with 14 of chain. Coin itself is 5.9 gm. Price then was $2250. Yours does not look like MF quality but send them the pics. Bob
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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