Spanish cob - 4 reale? 18 grams

[derslayer1]

After a relative died, we found this coin in personal belongings. Its 18 grams/silver I did take it to a coin dealer who told me it was an authentic cob, with pitting from sea water, dating back 500 years. He wasnt sure exactly of the year in the 1500,s. There is no rim edge onthe outside and no date legible which made hinm say certainly pre1600. After researching it (like crazy), I,ve found it is a 4 reale (I believe), and the obverse has the mexican cross of jerusalem. The shield I believe (not sure) is king charles II, from what I seen in pics, or phillip II or III?? I cannot tell the mint or assayer since its not visible on the left side of the sheild, and where the denomination mark to the right of the shield I,m not sure but looks like an 8, not sure if its 8 or 4 reale, 18 grams anyway. I know the cross is of the arms of castille & leon. Here are a few pics, just wondering if you pros out there can help me out on any info about this coin. I,m not a buff, and thinking of selling it thanks for looking and helping in advance, Andy

[Mackaydon]

Prior to 1728 8-reales cobs weighed about 27.5 grams; thereafter, just a fraction over 27 grams.
If your coin really weighs 18 grams, that seems too heavy for a 4-reales and not even close to an "8".
Any chance of providing a sharper pic?
Don.....

[derslayer1]

I will try to take a few more sharper pics....

[Bigcypresshunter]

I believe I see an 8.

[Trez]

It is an 8 that you see..................right of the shield.
The pictures are poor..........so will our ID help then.
Can you get better shots ?

Trez

[derslayer1]

Hope this helps, took me 20 pics to get a clear one, dang coffee! I put it under my fly tying mag...

[Mackaydon]

If I were to venture a guess: A degraded and very underweight 8-reales from the reign of Felipe V. Which of his two reign, I wont even guess.

[Bigcypresshunter]

[b]After a relative died, we found this coin in personal belongings. Its 18 grams/silver I did take it to a coin dealer who told me it was an authentic cob, with pitting from sea water, dating back 500 years. He wasnt sure exactly of the year in the 1500,s. There is no rim edge onthe outside and no date legible which made hinm say certainly pre1600.

If I were to venture a guess: A degraded and very underweight 8-reales from the reign of Felipe V. Which of his two reign, I wont even guess.

I agree Felipe V, 1st reign, which would make it late 1600's -early 1700's I think.

It has the Florenzada Cross, not the Jerusalem.

Pics are not clear enough to authenticate.

[Mackaydon]

BCH:
Right you are: First reign: 1700-1724. He then abdicated the throne to his son, Luis, who died in the same year. Felipe then again commanded the throne until his own death in 1746. The silver was .916 fine.
Don.....

[Bigcypresshunter]

Possible 1715 Fleet Mexican cob.

No Macro setting (flower icon) on your camera?

[gwdigger]

I believe this is a cast fake. It is an 8 reales but shows too much detail for an 18 gram coin. Plus the edge on the obverse is especially troublesome from 10 o clock to the 3 o clock position, indicative of a cast fake.

Just my opinion.

[derslayer1]

I had thought the same thing but was also told it very well could be a planchet that was clipped by colonials and passed the coin off as full value, saving the silver. Alot of reales were done this way, authentic or not. The dealer I had inspect the coin said that he sees no visible sign of a counterfeit, but he could not authenticate either witout the assayer or mint being visible left of the shield. He had afforded an educated guess, believing in his experience that it was 90+% real. But I certainly thannk all the replies towards this piece. I,ve learned alot in the past few weeks about this, and interesting, it certainly is....Thank yous.

[Bigcypresshunter]

The coin dealer was only off by a couple of centuries.

[Bigcypresshunter]

I wish we had better pics because there may be some issues. Im not worried about it being clipped but I have circled a spot on your cob that should be a lion with a tail. Does it look like a lion to you derslayer?

[cuzcosquirrel]

The details look wax smashed and not sea worn is what he means. There are a few line defects in the Burbon shield that makes me wonder also. It has some strange wear patterns on it for a common Plate Fleet coin. The vivid 8 next to the shield looks off when you compare it to some of the other wear patterns on the coin.

[Bigcypresshunter]

I also see some issues but cannot say too much without a clear pic.
Here is a drawing of the details for a Phillip V. shield representing the colonies. Notice the circled lion and right above the lion.

[Mackaydon]

The mark on the opposite side of the shield from the "8" appears to be either an "O" or a "D". Its position is where the assayers letter would be--below the mintmark. During the reign of Felipe V, I don't believe there was an assayer with the initial "O"; therefore, I'll guess that it is a "D". 8-reales coins of Felipe V, assayer "D" ('cross' versus 'pillars' in design) were issued between 1724 and 1728 inclusively. If the coin were found to have been minted in 1724, it might be from either the first or second reign of Felipe V--though I'd guess the second.
Don.......