Why hasnt the government figured it out yet?

[ivan salis]

Re: Why hasn't the government figured it out yet?

oh the wife * would never leave the states too much of a homebody type.=== but if god forbid anything where to occur (she died) leaving me alone --- its costa rica here I come. ---on $24,000 per year ($2000 month) live very well

 

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[Monty]

Re: Why hasn't the government figured it out yet?

I would have to take my entire family, kids, inlaws and grandkids, et al. Otherwise my wife would never go. My retirement income is several times what you mentioned, but I don't smoke and friendly girls or just a friendly girl would kill me in no time! Guess I'd better stay here as much as I'd like to go. Maybe move to south Texas where it's warm most of the year. But I'd still have to learn the Tex/Mex language. They don't speak real Spanish down there. We'll see what happens. Monty

 

[ivan salis]

Re: Why hasn't the government figured it out yet?

spanglish is a langauge all its own.

 

[EE THr]

Re: Why hasn't the government figured it out yet?

Concerning the topic---

I just had an interesting thought about all this.

Is there actually anything at all in the Constitution that specifies that the legislative branch (or any of the other two branches) of the government is supposed to act in the best interest of the citizens?

I have seen where some specific laws which have been passed have no effect because they don't specify any penalty if they are not followed. I don't think there is any penalty stated in the Constitution for any of the branches not acting in the best interest of the citizens.

And I don't think I have seen any requirement for accountability of any of the three branches of government.

Maybe there needs to be a fourth branch of our government, elected, nonpartisan, whose purpose is to audit and hold accountable all government departments, officials, and elections? Would that work?

 

[Tnmountains]

Re: Why hasn't the government figured it out yet?

Thats all we need is a fourth branch of government. Too many branches already. We need to trim the tree.

 

[EE THr]

Re: Why hasn't the government figured it out yet?

TnMountains;

Well, the "separation of powers" idea seems like a good one. But I think that maybe they are not separate enough. I think they are still too much like one big happy family, all working together to rip us off.

I think if they were separated some more, that they would loose some of their ability to sneak things into action---all of the unconstitutional acts, closed door meetings, and unpublicized bills being passed that we don't know about until it's too late. It's like a runaway train.

I think it would be a good thing to have people responsible for monitoring all that kind of stuff. Somebody besides them "monitoring" themselves.

Obviously, something needs to be done. Just letting it go on is not going to work. And just complaining about it won't work. And I'm certain that an armed revolution isn't a very bright idea!

What do you suggest?

 

[Tnmountains]

Re: Why hasn't the government figured it out yet?

TnMountains;

Well, the "separation of powers" idea seems like a good one. But I think that maybe they are not separate enough. I think they are still too much like one big happy family, all working together to rip us off.

I think if they were separated some more, that they would loose some of their ability to sneak things into action---all of the unconstitutional acts, closed door meetings, and unpublicized bills being passed that we don't know about until it's too late. It's like a runaway train.

I think it would be a good thing to have people responsible for monitoring all that kind of stuff. Somebody besides them "monitoring" themselves.

Obviously, something needs to be done. Just letting it go on is not going to work. And just complaining about it won't work. And I'm certain that an armed revolution isn't a very bright idea!

What do you suggest?

I can not imagine another branch of government to govern what we already have.Its bad enough that they could not even manage cash for clunkers. I agree with you its out of control. The perfect idea is that we the people hold the government responsible for the in appropriate actions. How we do this with out a full scale rebellion is beyond me. I do think that with out unity we do not stand a chance.I would think that we should raise the roof by demonstarting and using our powers to vote out the bad apples. It seems if you complain you are branded a threat. Its like we are the bad guys but if people stood together and said enough is enough with out violence maybe enough voice could make a difference. Jefferson spoke something about a little revolt from time to time kept government honest.
I do not advocate violence against Americans at all.I also think that more Government is not the answer. Government is way to fat already. We should start by making them live by the rules they set forth for us. I was talking to a Fed Judge and he said that Government had so embedded itself in its own house it would be impossible ever for the American people to change the policy of one set of rules for them and another for the people. We are like the surfs of old working to maintain a and feed a runaway kingdom.
I do not know what the answer is. Maybe it starts with electoral college and how votes are calculated. I do not think once you reach a level of political tenure that you should be compensated for life.
Wish I had the answer. I believe most politicians suffer from some inherently wrong personality trait/disorder. Its similar to a really bad crooked used cars salesman. Now take that personality and put them in a position of making decisions that affect your safety and welfare as you drive off their lot.
That is scary to me. They are so out of touch. It was hilarious at the failed attempts of the town hall meetings where people were upset.They just could not understand why.
I do not have the answer. I liked the idea of the country mentioned above and the cost of living but heck I am an American. I will stay and advocate the rights were founded on.
Hey maybe we as states should all break away again and govern our states . Sorry for all the typos am on my lap top
Happy Huntin?
TnMountains

 

[Monty]

Re: Why hasn't the government figured it out yet?

The answer to why the congress and the president and the supreme court fails to look out for the citizens. it has a common answer. WE THE PEOPLE!! As a famous 'possum once said, "I have found the enemy and it is us"! The branches of government were designed by our forefathers to answer only to us. So, why do some of the states keep electing the same old do nothing crooked congressmen year after year? And why has the presidency become a popularity contest for the wealthy rather than the election of a wizened, honest person? It use to be that our Grandmothers would tell a young lad that he could grow up to be the president some day, but no more. The presidency was once an ideal that every young man honored and aspired to, but no more. The office was once one of respect and almost reverence, but no more. It is more of a contest to see who can provide us with the most freebies furnished by the working class tax payers. Being able to go from poverty to being a millionaire was once an a American dream, and a distinct possibility with hard work, honest dealings and patriotism, but no more. And while we are talking "fairy tales", I can remember when a small child of either sex could play outside alone or with peers and not have to be constantly watched, and we walked to school without fear, and the old guy at the playground who gave you candy was a nice old guy who really loved children and would look out for them. And there was no need to lock doors or padlock gates and punishment was swift and sure and no one dared break the law in a neighborhood. And neighborhoods were real neighborhoods where you knew all your neighbors and their kids and neighborhood get togethers were common and fun, but no more. All of this is due mainly because we as citizens have dropped the ball and took the easy route and let the government run us instead of us running the government. Let's take it back over when we go to the voting booth next time. And please do vote! So many fat cats remain in office because only a very small number of us actually turn out to vote, while in Afghanistan and Iraq people risk being killed to get to vote. Our lackadaisical failure to get out and vote on election days is shameful. And I'm through now. Monty

 

[EE THr]

Re: Why hasn't the government figured it out yet?

Monty & TnMountains;

I agree with both of you on your opinions of the current situation.

People have been pretty freely using the term "bankrupt country" in reference to the U.S. economic situation. There is not much question that things are really screwed up.

How did it get that way? Who was running the show when things went in the wrong direction for us?

Republicans and Democrats. And it started a long time ago.

I don't think that demonstrating will have enough effect to change the direction of the people in power. It would be like demonstrating against bank robbers or any other criminals, because as was said "most politicians suffer from some inherently wrong personality trait/disorder." They somehow feel that they are entitled because they are "the elite," while the population in general are all stupid chumps who deserve being ripped off.

I think that legal control over these types of criminals is required.

How about a federal referendum, like some of the states now have? Would that be the starting point?

Voting, by current standards, is just a multiple choice situation---which crook do you want to see on TV while you're being robbed?

There needs to be some starting point that the public can accomplish.

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

Re: Why hasn't the government figured it out yet?

Monty has an extremely good point - we keep electing the same kinds of folks, or the same folks, time after time, after time.

However - I am pretty sure I know at least ONE "good" reason for that.

I'll give you an example - in Pennsylvania, quite a long time ago, there was a man named Dan Flood. He was elected over, and over, and over and over, so many times I cannot remember now.

This man was one of the biggest crooks in politics in our area. However - he was extremely good at one thing - he brought money into our area, every month, every year. He paved streets, he improved the garbage pick-up, he improved the shopping and business opportunities in our area, without a cent out of our pockets. In other words, he was absolutely great at pork. And the citizens loved every dime that came into our area that didn't cost us money out of our own pockets.

He was eventually caught and charged with many many violations, and the citizenry refused to prosecute. Massive protests resulted, and city hall publicly denounced prosecuting a man who had done so much for our part of the country. Dan Flood went to his death with a perfect record, and with many people absolutely loving him. After all, a man that has done so much - who cares if he knew how to play the "game", he also knew how to win it.

And, that happens in every state. Every state votes for people that have a record of doing something great for their areas, so we end up with different presidents, but re-elect the same representatives and senators that make up the congress that really controls the purse strings, and, as we know, its the Golden Rule - those who have the gold, rule. Even if the names change, the things they do, and their affiliations, remain the same.


B

 

[EE THr]

Re: Why hasn't the government figured it out yet?

mrs.oroblanco;

Now there is a good idea---let them operate on commission! Give them the incentive in the right direction, and let them have at it. Except that "free" porkbarrel money from federal taxpayers wouldn't count.

There would still need to be a federal referendum to enact that though, because the big money powers wouldn't like it much.

 

[Monty]

Re: Why hasn't the government figured it out yet?

Mrs "O", And the same can be said about the notorious gangsters of the 30s. Al Capone was worshipped by many in Chicago. Dillinger. Baby Face Nelson and Bonnie and Clyde were folk heros to many. But they were still crooks. Heck so was Jesse James and gang at the turn of the century. You have to recognize the crooks for what they are, not what they appear to be. Vote 'em out or quit gripeing I say. Monty

 

[ivan salis]

Re: Why hasn't the government figured it out yet?

asking the current badly corrupted govt ( all of it top to bottom) to fix things and stop corruption --is like asking a bank robber to design a banks security system ,---------- since the current and past corrupted govt is a big part of the problem , surely a smart person would not expect them to be the cure.

 

[EE THr]

Re: Why hasn't the government figured it out yet?

Ivan;

Yup.

The "Big Power" fraternity are addicted to this easy-money con game, and there is going to have to be some kind of public intervention. Something more civilized than bullets, and more effective than protests.

 

[ivan salis]

Re: Why hasn't the government figured it out yet?

well that just leaves "voting" --the bums out .

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

Re: Why hasn't the government figured it out yet?

Monty and Ivan,

Voting them out IS the answer. The reality is that the people who could do us some good very often don't have the money that the "in" crowd has. Third party candidates don't get to debate very often, so people don't get to hear them, so we usually end up picking what we think is the lesser evil. (I don't think that's what our forefathers had in mind).

Maybe a first BIG step would be to limit campaign funds to what they could make if they got the job. I think it is ridiculous for them to be able to spend 5-10 times what they would make if they were in office. That, to me, points to them knowing exactly what "perks" they can get when they get into office.

Of course, they like to say its because they don't care about the money, just public service, but...............................

What do you think?


B

 

[ivan salis]

Re: Why hasn't the government figured it out yet?

if their so stupid that they will spend 5 times more to get elected than what they make in the job ( if their honest thats all they would get)-- then I sure as heck do not want the "fool" handling my cash (our tax dollars) and if they plan to "make up the differance " via corruption then I don't want the "crook" handliing my cash (our tax dollars) -- I firmly believe one should only be allowed to spend as much money as one would make in their term of office to get elected (not one cent more)-- this would cut down on "buying" a election via mass media "lobbying" which sucks up all the press and air time so only the rich get heard.

 

[EE THr]

Re: Why hasn't the government figured it out yet?

Just throwing stuff out here, so that someone might get a good idea---

We already give money for Presidential campaigning, but only to those who "qualify," which limits things right there. How about paying for all their campaigning, and not allowing them to gather any donation campaign funds at all?

The way for them to qualify is not by setting a certain number of anything for each candidate, but rather give it to the top 25 candidates. That way we would have a much wider choice, and get closer to a real choice.

Provide them all with equal media air time. Allow them all into debates. Make the news people give them all equal interviews. And so forth.

Plus, put them all on the ballot. And don't require any party affiliation!

Yes, it would cost money, but think of all the trillions we would save if we better knew who we were voting for! And if honest people actually had a chance to run for office(s).

 

[EE THr]

Re: Why hasn't the government figured it out yet?

Actually, the reason that the government hasn't figured it out yet is because we haven't put them into the position where they need to figure it out.

 

[EE THr]

Re: Why hasn't the government figured it out yet?

Well, all this got me to thinking, so I was looking around the Internet, and here is what I found.

These two are both pretty long because they are very detailed and very well referenced and documented.

This one has 22 parts, about ten minutes each, so you have to click on the next part on the right, after you finish each one. I don't care much for the musical lead-in, but it's only 25 seconds.


This one is all on one video, and in HD. It mostly takes up where the first one leaves off, covering recent years up to, and mostly, the present, with names and references.