The Peralta-Fish Map - Page 16
Welcome guest, is this your first visit?
Member
Discoveries
 
Page 16 of 17 FirstFirst ... 614151617 LastLast
Results 226 to 240 of 244
Like Tree540Likes

Thread: The Peralta-Fish Map

« Prev Thread | Next Thread »
  1. #226

    Aug 2007
    1,519
    486 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    in fact we could add the nephew to that list as well you can drag a dead body down hill but you can not drag it up hill when your Waltz age ..if you think about it you would know his body is also ... he could not drag the body north ,and he could only drag the body south down hill a set distance . that's how I found the hanging rock ...I guess you just have to be a killer to think like one...lol

  2. #227
    um
    Nemo me impune lacesset

    Jan 2005
    DAKOTA TERRITORY
    Tesoro Lobo Supertraq, (95%) Garrett Scorpion (5%)
    7,597
    8773 times
    Quote Originally Posted by coazon de oro View Post
    Howdy Roy,

    Waltz was looking forward to getting better, he would not confess to murder while he was being cared for. He would have been kicked out, or reported to the Sheriff.

    All those other "sources" claiming Waltz was feverish, and babbling incoherently, were not there, so they are not even real sources.

    We do not know if Gildeon Roberts mentioned anything to anyone. No one goes around recording all of our conversations, get real.

    The argument on whether Dick Holmes was in Phoenix on the day Waltz died, was settled. It was his father who had the same name, the one who was out of town visiting a mine. The last newspaper article that came out on it cleared up the confusion started by the first articles. You can ask Wayne T., or Matthew R. if you go to the rendezvous.

    Homar
    No one proposed that people were recording all conversations. Today it is happening in millions of homes with the handy-dandy devices storing everything on the 'cloud'.

    The other sources I was referring to were Julia and Reiney, both of whom were with Waltz on his last day alive and in the room although NOT in the room at the moment he passed away.

    If Waltz really murdered seven men, why do we find the same story in the "Jacobs and Ludy" story? Also, the alternative version of the Lost Dutchman mine from the Pioneer interviews, has NO murders at all. See any possible issue(s) there?

    Don't get me wrong, the Holmes manuscript version COULD be the truth and COULD lead someone to find the lost Dutchman's mine one day. However the record so far is not so successful, and neither is the version from Julia and Reiney (and published by Sims Ely and Pierpont Bicknell). Could the version obtained by the unemployed writers in the Depression, by interviewing old timers who knew Jacob Waltz from his days at Florence, be the true version? Or are you 100% convinced that the Holmes version is the correct one?

    SUPPORT THE BEEF INDUSTRY - EAT BEEF
    "We must find a way, or we will make one."--Hannibal Barca

  3. #228
    us
    May 2010
    texas
    1,406
    3008 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Hola Barista del campo, we can go on forever if you keep refilling my cup. However I don't want to continue hijacking this thread, so as I depart I will tell you that I feel confident that when the LDM is found, you will find that Jacob Waltz did not lie to Dick Holmes.

    Homar

  4. #229

    Aug 2007
    1,519
    486 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    well look at from my point I do know where the mine is . and I everything in that will was true to the letter IMHO ...!even if it had been moved around it was easy for me to put it back the way it was before Waltz made changes in it ...so it is easy to see what Dick Holmes changed and if you look at Brownie wording he told you just what Dick Holmes told him ...then look at what he told Clay w. its in wording ...he never told Clay he told him everything Dick told Brownie ..he said he never lied to brownie and brownie never lied to Clay .. but never said he told him everything that dick told him .. but like I said Waltz had already made changes in the letter before Dick got it ...so Dick and Brownie had not chance of using the directions to find the mine ..IMHO ...they could not have used the directions to find the emine any more then Julia could have .. you can not take those directions and find the mine ... no way what so ever...
    Hillbilly Prince likes this.

  5. #230

    Aug 2007
    1,519
    486 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    lets look at like this .. if we are believe the Peralta /Ruth map and the Peralta /Fish map are both real and the Gonzales/Peralta map are real then they all end up at the same location .. and in fact they do ...so you have to ask your self if that's true . then some of the clues found on the Veni Vidi vici directions are the same as the will stated them .. the only way that is possible if the same direction were known by the Peralta family if we believe the will is correct then Waltz talked to the Peralta at the camp site and that's how he knew the same clues because the Peralta told him the same thing they told Ruth ... there is no other way possible Waltz could have known the information on the Peralta /ruth map unless he had heard it from the same source . the Peralta !

  6. #231

    Aug 2007
    1,519
    486 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    I will close with one more detail .. see the truth is you got two parts of the history mixed up . the Peralta /Ruth map is from the Jesuit time line around the date of 1535-1539 when the stones were made ...by the Jesuits ..IMHO . and the Waltz directions came from the latter group of Peralta in the ...? what's the date . I told you all the dates the other day ... 1868-1881 I don't believe he had the mine before 1868 ..most likely he got the mine some time in the early 1870's , see the difference if the Jesuit were there till 1646 and they knew about the tunnel ...it shows up on the Peralta /Ruth map and the Peralta stones . it is not on the Gonzales map ...see Sims Ely gives us the correct clue . when he says the tunnel was lower down on the hill below .. it was not .. he never knew where the tunnel was because he got the direction from the Peralta and they never told the Gonzales about the tunnel .. two different groups of miners ..two different sets of direction for two some what different mining groups ..the first set the Peralta . the second set Peralta and Gonzales ..why did the Gonzales not know about the tunnel because that's where the Jesuit hide their skimmed treasure when the Spanish killed them off the tunnel vanished with them till it shows up latter on the Peralta /Ruth map and the stones ..its not on the Gonzales map because they never knew about it ...

  7. #232
    um
    Nemo me impune lacesset

    Jan 2005
    DAKOTA TERRITORY
    Tesoro Lobo Supertraq, (95%) Garrett Scorpion (5%)
    7,597
    8773 times
    Blindbowman wrote
    well look at from my point I do know where the mine is . and I everything in that will was true to the letter IMHO
    What will? Can you post it or provide a link where we can read the will? Thanks in advance.

    SUPPORT THE BEEF INDUSTRY - EAT BEEF
    "We must find a way, or we will make one."--Hannibal Barca

  8. #233

    Aug 2007
    1,519
    486 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by Oroblanco View Post
    Blindbowman wrote


    What will? Can you post it or provide a link where we can read the will? Thanks in advance.

    the letter found under the bed is the will ..IMHO
    Oroblanco likes this.

  9. #234

    Aug 2007
    1,519
    486 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    if you look a will states ones sin and regrets and make repent in some form of honor .this letter found under the bed dose all of that when put back the way it was ...Dick Holmes change the letter to make it look like Waltz had given the letter to him when he was still alive .. that's imposable because Dick never knew about the words Waltz had changed in the letter ... the out right fact Waltz was Dead when Dick Holmes took that Letter ..how do I know . for one if you wrote a letter like this you would have put a heading on it . there was no heading ..the letter has way to many details for a dying man to right with his last breath ,the things that were moved from one place in the letter to another place to make it look like the letter was given to Dick Holmes are easy to put back where they should be in the real will ...you can even spot the signal words that Dick Changed threw out the letter ...see the fact is Dick over did it when he started changing the letter ....before Dick made any changes what so ever there were two lines out of place , that made the direction confusing ,once a person knows where the mine is you can pick those two lines out easy ...Waltz is the only one that knew where the mine was and the only one that could have wrote the letter before Dick Holmes got to it ...Waltz is the only one that could have change those details around and known they were changed because he know where the mine was when he wrote the letter . he never told Dick Holmes anything . I am sure of that and Dick Holmes got what he deserved ....yes IMHO it is in fact his will and I am glad to See Dick was easy to fool ,it is true and sad Brownie Holmes paid the price as well but ..but that was cost paid for his fathers sins ....Waltz only set the trap .. Dick Holmes got pulled in because he made the choice to take what was not his . and Waltz may not have had a bear trap setting near that box under his bed but what he had was just as effective to the letter ...

  10. #235

    Aug 2007
    1,519
    486 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    if you really want to know the facts then you have to look at what took place after Dick Holmes took the letter . do I believe Waltz would have left the gold under the bed to Julia yes , would Waltz have told Julia what was in his will .. yes ...did Dick Holmes greed and actions cost him pain and suffering yes , Did it cost his son Brownie Holmes the same pain and suffering yes ..but you have to look at it with a open mind .. Julia went to court to get the gold ....she never knew about the letter and that is out right clear because if she had read the will she would have told the court about it ...her interest was in getting the gold back ... and that's why Waltz told her about the caches and told her not to worry about the mine ...because he could read Dick Holmes like a foot print in mud ...he already knew what was going to happen ...dick Holmes started a chain reaction that took Brownies life and sent good men like Clay worst down the same path . I was going to give the mine to Clay ..you want the truth can you even handle the truth most of the treasure hunters here can not handle the truth the man that gives the mine away will profit the most from his own greed . he will be able to no when to stop it and how to control his own actions when to walk away . when to realize what is true wealth is . his friends and family .. the power to write your own will word for word and if any thing else ever comes out of that mine is the fact Waltz wrote his own will I am fine with that ...is the mine real yes I have seen it with my own two eyes . its as real as the rocks in those mountains every damn one of them ...as real as the pain and suffering it has left in its wake ...its up to each of you to go and look or stay home and dream of what you could find .. because its out there and its real but your never going to even to get close if you have family and friends because good people like me never find what they need in life any more then the greed do or the sinners .. because we realize a mountain of gold is worthless when you have a heart as big as I do .. you would see the need of others and you would most likely die penniless and happy with your family and friends ...is the letter his will Yes it is IMHO and my words are just as valued to me as Waltz 's were to him ....

  11. #236

    Aug 2007
    1,519
    486 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    and by the way just in case some of you think me & ore got off topic 0f this thread let Me re- line the thread back on topic , with a few words .. what did I say I stated out right " that is not the Rio Salado " for one simple reason ,, "the maps up side down ! "

  12. #237

    Aug 2007
    1,519
    486 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    all those maps clay showed everyone . they are up side down ...Fish did not know how to read the map because as I pointed out it had no words on it and he had no idea how to read it because he did not make it Ruth did ...

  13. #238

    Aug 2007
    1,519
    486 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    you can tell me Fish was going to be the next pope but it dose not change the logical facts of this reality .. Fish put the words on the map m and he stated he had been shot at just in case anyone found out the truth .. he shot twice Ruth was shot twice ... and when it is all over no matter what we believe Fish came up with a map with no words on it and he had know idea how to read the map because Ruth never got the chance to tell him how to read it ...IMHO if you think Fish got that map any other way good for you but I don't and I am sure of what I think the chain of events were at the time they took place ...in fact I don't know of any map that shows the trail going south ...towards Mexico .. to get to AZ ...

  14. #239
    um
    Nemo me impune lacesset

    Jan 2005
    DAKOTA TERRITORY
    Tesoro Lobo Supertraq, (95%) Garrett Scorpion (5%)
    7,597
    8773 times
    Blindbowman could you post the letter found under Waltz's bed for everyone to read? Thanks in advance.

    I do not know how to tie this back into the topic, but very highly doubt that Frank Fish was involved in the death of Adolph Ruth. Perhaps you might also if you read the correspondence between Erwin Ruth and the Phoenix city detectives, and their interview with the girlfriend of one of the two men Ruth hired to pack him in. The story she told was that they had murdered Ruth and took his map. That map ended up being lost by one of the two men in a court fight when the man he was disputing grabbed it and ran out of the courtroom, never to be seen again. How could Frank Fish be involved with this? I can't see how.



    PS the two "cowboy/prospectors" hired by Adolph Ruth were named L.F. Purnell and Jack Keenan. Couldn't remember the names, sorry for that!
    Last edited by Oroblanco; Oct 11, 2019 at 07:50 PM. Reason: Brain fart
    alan m and Hillbilly Prince like this.
    SUPPORT THE BEEF INDUSTRY - EAT BEEF
    "We must find a way, or we will make one."--Hannibal Barca

  15. #240

    Aug 2007
    1,519
    486 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    I once copied that letter from a web site I have the copy some where but I don't know where it is right now ...I am sure it was also posted here on this site back when we first started talking about Dick Holmes and his taking the gold from under the bed ...this is not the same as the one that tells about his working in Vicksburg :"Go to first water, then to second water, then take the old government trail to San Carlos. Where the trail turns south you will see over the point of a ridge a rock standing in the brush that looks like a man. This is where I always leave the trail. Go to the left of the trail and follow up the long ridge and you will come to a saddle. In this saddle is a round Indian ruin of rocks. Go through this saddle and on up a low ridge and when you get to the highest point of the ridge you can look north and the four peaks are lined up to look like one peak. In the other direction you will see a high needle. In the canyon under you is my hidden camp. You can't get down there because it's too steep, go to the mouth of the canyon and then back. You can find the rock house with very little difficulty. You won't be able to see it until you are right upon it. After you find the camp then come back out of the canyon. (Here Waltz gave a direction to the mine that Holmes and Roberts kept secret). You will never be able to find the mine until you first find the rock house as the shaft is completely hidden. A prospector won't find it because there is no ledge in view. In the mine you will find about $75,000 dollars in gold already dug out. There is enough gold left to dig to make twenty men millionaires." I dug the outcropping away and erased all signs of my digging." but this reminds me of Babcock talking about chicomoztoc... that is not the letter I am talking about it has some detail but there was two pages and it ends with the words then Waltz was dead ...

 

 
Page 16 of 17 FirstFirst ... 614151617 LastLast

Sponsored Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. The Peralta Stones
    By gollum in forum The Lost Dutchman's Mine
    Replies: 3594
    Last Post: Dec 18, 2016, 02:51 PM
  2. Replies: 15
    Last Post: Jun 04, 2016, 04:05 PM
  3. Replies: 8
    Last Post: Dec 03, 2014, 10:15 AM
  4. Fish returning after landslide - Fish Bio gets it right
    By DizzyDigger in forum Gold Prospecting
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: May 01, 2014, 09:52 PM
  5. some fish hooks and one huge fish hook - NOW double pointed hooks added
    By larson1951 in forum North American Indian Artifacts
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: May 03, 2009, 02:10 PM

Tags for this Thread

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v4.3.0