Ma Pa mine of Tayopa has been found

[cactusjumper]

Infosponge,

Believe it or not, as a young man wandering the Superstitions, I actually met Mr. Gratia on a practically unknown and ancient trail that goes up the east side of Tortilla Mountain drops over into Peter's Canyon, close to Cottonwood Canyon, and snakes its way up onto Peter's Mesa.

He was the consumate gentleman, and we sat in the shade and shared LDM stories before going our seperate ways. Even then, he was a Stone Map fan, and that is where I first heard of the Ma Pa mine, or mines.

He told me that Jacob Waltz knew of the mine, had been there, and left a Kettle at the Ma Pa location. From that time on, the locals had called it.......The Lost Ma & Pa Kettle Mine. It remains one of the lesser known legends of the Superstition Mountains.

Find that rusted old kettle, and you are close to the entrance to a fortune.

Good luck,

Joe

 

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[Infosponge]

Cactusjumper,

Infosponge,

Believe it or not, as a young man wandering the Superstitions, I actually met Mr. Gratia on a practically unknown and ancient trail that goes up the east side of Tortilla Mountain drops over into Peter's Canyon, close to Cottonwood Canyon, and snakes its way up onto Peter's Mesa.

He was the consumate gentleman, and we sat in the shade and shared LDM stories before going our seperate ways. Even then, he was a Stone Map fan, and that is where I first heard of the Ma Pa mine, or mines.

He told me that Jacob Waltz knew of the mine, had been there, and left a Kettle at the Ma Pa location. From that time on, the locals had called it.......The Lost Ma & Pa Kettle Mine. It remains one of the lesser known legends of the Superstition Mountains.

Find that rusted old kettle, and you are close to the entrance to a fortune.

Good luck,

Joe

I envy you for having met Mr. Gratia! It is well known that his knowledge was extensive, when it came to codes he knew everything from A-Z.

There is no doubt about the Lost Ma & Pa Kettle Mine, but the one I knew about was a uranium mine. I believe the only way it will ever be found again is by using Kettle math!



Sincerely,

Infosponge

 

[Oroblanco]

Blindbowman, I take it that you have decided against posting those four other sources that at least mention these mines (MA and PA) in public or private? Are there really four other sources or was that a trick?

Synchronicity is an odd thing; here I see Ma and Pa Kettle's famous Uranium mine this evening, and Beth just found our geiger counters today; maybe 'fate' is trying to tell us something?
Oroblanco

 

[Springfield]

Good afternoon Furness; For rough field usage in the 15-1600's one can consider a vara as roughly a meter. The codo precedes the Vara as roughly 1/2 a vara. It was in a transitional phase about the time of Tayopa.

Don Jose de La Mancha

There's no way to know which vara was used in these field measurements or any other during the time period unless you have a copy of the surveyor's field notes spelling out methods used, etc. The distances are all approximations only, based on the surveyor's on site work. His 'vara' may have been an exact copy of the Viceroy's standard, and it may have been a SWAG. Also, the manner in which the measurements were made on the ground could add a significant error - we don't know if the measurer had cordels and other rope lengths to work with, etc. All you can count on are that the measurements probably represent a number of strides made by an experienced strider.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

John, that is just about as good an explanation as we can expect today. No one knows exactly.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Furness]

Hi Jose & Springfield,

Thanks both, yes i realised that it would not be a precise measurement used by the priests whatever they used considering the ground conditions, and i had thought possibly triangulation, (as well as a piece of string) ha ha
it was when i looked through the figures on Jose's list, vara's to metres that the differences stood out and wondered why, as i know Jose had mentioned earlier that he had found quite a few of the covered mines, and little more than ratholes as he described them, so his maths worked otherwise he would not have found them,

Jose regarding the 7 that you mention i take it the distance ends up somewhere in midair over a long drop into the barranca below rather than on the canyon side,?

regards

John

 

[Blindbowman]

real de :


they are singular readings, not triangulation, not varas ...!

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Evening BB: I would love to hear your explanation as to why they are not varas? One can always learn something. MY motto is "learn somethng daily or it has been a wasted day".

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Furness]

BB,

if you had to measure the distance from the front of a church to a mine entrance some distance away,
how would you do it,

john

 

[Blindbowman]

BB,

if you had to measure the distance from the front of a church to a mine entrance some distance away,
how would you do it,

john

why would you need a distance at all ...? he gave you a fix point ..!

 

[Blindbowman]

Evening BB: I would love to hear your explanation as to why they are not varas? One can always learn something. MY motto is "learn somethng daily or it has been a wasted day".

Don Jose de La Mancha

they are not distance readings

 

[Blindbowman]

John, the original document states in 'varas', however that is impossible, so I had to back calculate from Teter's mine to the door of the church,. this gave me the key. You simply divide the varas by two - I suspect that they were codos originally - then multiply the result by 10. It worked perfectly on each and every site.

Here is a composite bit of data from the letters in the old trunk that was buried in the ruins of the Church.

Don Jose de La Mancha

"that is impossible"

you can say that again .. so you dont need any help from me .. good luck ..

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

? BB Don't you wish to know all of the details?

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Blindbowman]

if you used those reading as distances .. i cant help you ,,, your to far gone ...

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

BB ?

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Blindbowman]

? BB Don't you wish to know all of the details?

Don Jose de La Mancha

no i could care less what you post from here on ... if you used those readings as distances then there is nothing left to say if you beleive they took you to a mine ,, then i cant help you at all ..

 

[cactusjumper]

Don Jose,

[? BB Don't you wish to know all of the details?]

I'm somewhat confused. Once we exposed the kettle thingie, what details are left?

Thanks in advance,

Joe

 

[Oroblanco]

? BB Don't you wish to know all of the details?

Don Jose de La Mancha

no i could care less what you post from here on ... if you used those readings as distances then there is nothing left to say if you beleive they took you to a mine ,, then i cant help you at all ..

Well, Don Jose does have assay reports from the samples he took from those mines; based on what I saw in them, I would sure call them mines. Don't you wish to hear the rest, and tell the rest of what you have to tell? Having a bad day? Don't feel alone about that, we all get them.
Roy

 

[Blindbowman]

" I rather suspect that they used simple triangulation for their measurements. As you say, it certainly couldn't be paced off.


BB: triangulation not even close .........."suspect" ! remind me not to go sailing with you ...lol

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

A sail boat is not practical up there BB.

Don Jose de La Mancha