Misc data and adventures of a Tayopa treasure hunter

[Oroblanco]

Don Jose' de la Mancha wrote

Any one for salvaging?

Crawl around inside a sunken U-boat that may have a cargo of enriched uranium? Gee where to I sign? I am a little confused on this one amigo; the Zimmerman story and gold was WW I, but this U-boat is WW II, are you thinking they are connected? Thank you in advance,
Oroblanco

 

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[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

HI my compadre Oro de Tayopa, Yes they are connected, but separated in years, in the way that Germany was attempting to slow the us production down in the European war. Yes, I do know within a small area where the sub is, as well as the zimmerman boat. Let's go get them?

Of course I will need a bit of capital first and the almost impossible permits.

Lets see, an all girl crew, booze, diving gear, side scan sonar, an air born maggie, boat, shall we say a 75 footer, Ketch rig, a piper cub super cruiser on floats, an all girl diving crew, and I suppose that it would be nice to allow the gals in here a chance to participate also.

Don Jose de La Mancha

p.s almost forgot, I have reactivated my account in the UBS - Union Bank of Switzerland in Gold units..

 

[rockhound]

Sounds like a grand adventure. I wish I were a few years younger and lived closer to your location. Now days I don't jump and run every time I hear of supposed treasure. I will leave the diving and salvaging for the younger people from now on. I am being more selective in my treasure adventures now days. I no longer need high adventure to far off and exotic places to find my treasures. Good Luck. rockhound

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Geeze rock hound, not even with an all girl crew? Even Marc is salivating a bit.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[rockhound]

Man, your are making it hard not to sign up. Adventure is one thing, but adventure with a scenic view, now that's something else. I need to make some hard decisions now. rockhound

 

[Loke]

HI my compadre Oro de Tayopa, Yes they are connected, but separated in years, in the way that Germany was attempting to slow the us production down in the European war. Yes, I do know within a small area where the sub is, as well as the zimmerman boat. Let's go get them?

Of course I will need a bit of capital first and the almost impossible permits.

Lets see, an all girl crew, booze, diving gear, side scan sonar, an air born maggie, boat, shall we say a 75 footer, Ketch rig, a piper cub super cruiser on floats, an all girl diving crew, and I suppose that it would be nice to allow the gals in here a chance to participate also.

Don Jose de La Mancha

p.s almost forgot, I have reactivated my account in the UBS - Union Bank of Switzerland in Gold units..

Oh oh - me thinks a certain 'Tiger' might have some objections to an all-gal crew/divers ;-)
However - far be it for me to put cold water on a fire - just keep the thought and keep it burning!
As for the book - sign me up straightaway!
For the adventure itself - just give me heads-up whenever the permissions are in ... I sincerely doubt that it will be in _my_ lifetime (and I'm not counting yours - you, my friend, are immortal!) - however, I do have heirs ... too young yet to see what they are made of (obviously, I'm speaking of grandchildren) - but there is one in particular that I have high hopes for ;-)

Per

 

[tesoro dog]

GREAT Story Capitan! My wife has relatives in Navajoa and one told me a story about going hunting in Western Chihuahua. He told me his guide took him to some caves there, that contained some giant skeletons of men, most being well over 8 ft.. The other curious thing about them was that their skulls did not have any of the usual cracks in them, ( started this without researching the anatomical description ) you know where the skull creases at childbirth, allowing for the passage through the birth canal. The bones might still be in those caves, lot of strange stuff on this earth! Peace and Prayers! td

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Hola Tesoro dog: that would be near Camotes, Sonora. From there it is approx. one day by mule to the N E to the Cerro de La Campana where the gigantes buried their dead in caves. Yes they were from 8 - 9 ft tall with reddish hair.

Interesting that you knew of this, more my friend.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[poorhunter78]

Very Interesting Tesoro Dog! I am a student Eager to learn more...



Hi Don..

 

[tesoro dog]

Hey Guys! Don't know too much about them, their skeletons have have been found all over the world. North and South America, Australia, New Zealand, I mean all over! Red Haired Giants, most all Indian tribes at least here in the States have legends about them. Up to 15 ft. tall and maybe taller. Some say they were even cannibalistic and thus greatly feared, just Google them. And by their graves sites, it seems to me that they were well taken care of by the survivors, laid out sometimes with their weapons at their sides.
They did exist, but it makes me think that the Creator, set things up with we humans and our size in mind. Fruits, vegetables, animals, are all created for people our size, an apple is small enough to hold with one hand, a cow produces enough milk per day for a average size family, a chicken is also just the right size for a family dinner, not so big where you have to invite the whole neighborhood over. Same for the size of an egg, perfect for one person for breakfast. And lets not forget, a Rose for your loved one, it is not 3 ft. across and at the top of a 20 ft. stem!
Maybe it is true what they say about what the giants ate, maybe they would burp and say,, "excuse me" then a second later another voice,, "No excuse me" ! td

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

He said a bit hesitantly, "the Apache were well aware that they were very exposed in the pueblo, so went looking for a more secure and remote place. They found one at the bottom of a very deep canyon where the Aros river made a large, long curve to the north.

Inside of the curve was about 100 hectares of land above the high water mark, more than enough land to plant and live. The up stream entry was guarded by deep pools and rocks, the same for the lower end. Since both sides were almost sheer 800 ft cliffs, it was well protected. The southen entrance down the cliff was by way of an animal trail, very steep and over broken cliffs. It was almost a perfect place, except for the fact that a squad of soldiers could keep them bottled up.

While inspecting this place, a few of the Apache that had worked with gold miners, commenced to prospect along the river and shortly hit fantastic amounts of placer gold. It was on the outside of the bend of the river, a most unusual place.

They then continued looking and eventually found a Mesa that looked interesting. Since it was a basalt flow It was layered in 3 sections. They cut a tree, then notched the trunk to make a ladder which enabled them to reach the next level. From there they simply followed breaks up to the top. Once on top it seemed perfect, but no water. So they commenced digging in different places. They never found any water, but at about 1/2 meter down, wherever they dug, they found coarse gold, an old bench placer".

This is was what the Apache had drawn on the two maps.

Since Hernandez' bother had died, he decided to have his son go with him to check the maps out. However his son didn't want to go off for a few days into uninhabited land, since as a mayor domo all he had to do was lie in a hammock, give orders, and drink beer. However, after insisting that he wanted to see if it was true before he died, his son finally agreed.

They made up a small pack train of burros and set off. After a week of scouting around, they finally hit the first sign on the Apache map and found the animal trail down to the river. It was in June, just before the rains set in, so the river was low and clear. They set up camp on the north side where the land was, and started prospecting. Since the maps had shown that the best gold was on the outside of the bend, they finally went there, and it was !

In Mexico they cut a cow horn lengthwise to form a long shallow cup for prospecting / panning. The layered structure of the horn makes it excellent for fine gold. However in this case it was not fine, but coarse gold. in fact he swore upon his bible, which he lived and breathed by, that he had gotten up to 50 grams of gold at a time. Converted this is about a heaping handful of sand / gravel. an impossible amount.

They had panned for a few days, when the rains started early, so they had to leave quickly. The animal trail up the cliff was very slippery and dangerous, and just as they were reaching the top, in a particularly bad spot, his son slipped in the mud, and almost fell, and they lost their gold and supplies when his pack fell back down into the canyon. They had nothing to eat for the next few days while returning to civilization.

Old Hernandez sorta looked off into the distance at the birds, then apparently a bit indecisive, said that his son would never go back to the canon. He remained quiet, in deep thought. Sensing that it would be a good diplomatic move (GOLD) I gestured to the lurking Lupita to bring more coffee. The sight of Lupita and the hot coffee, brought him out of his reverie, and he turned to me and said, "this is why I am here Don Jose, will you go back with me that canyon"©@

tomorrow more

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Goodyguy]

Oh this is getting good.................

 

[PROSPECTORMIKEL]

DITTO! ''

 

[rockhound]

An old friend, which I used to work with contacted me recently and asked if I knew anyone who could dive. I replied that indeed that I knew a certified diver. He then related this story to me. It seems his uncle is dying of cancer and told him he had something he wnated to share with him. His uncle told him that in the 1920's there was a small 1/2 track railroad that ran by a quarry, where he worked to remove and crush rock into gravel. The railroad transported the gravel to another location where it was stored and sold. One morning when they arrived at work, the quarry was flooded and they barely had time to get their equipment out. The train stopped transporting their grave and started transporting wares for many towns along the line. Since the tracks ran by the quarry they kept using it instead of building another line. One day when the train was crossing the small hill around the quarry, the track started giving way from all the rain that they had in the previous days. The train started slipping on the track and going backwards toward the quarry. As it was getting close to the quarry, the engineer and fireman abandonded the train and it ran off into the quarry. He claimed it never turned over but just ran off in there. Now is where it gets interesting. The two cars it was pulling were loaded with 1920's pattern bone china. He wnatd to know if it would be possible to retrieve the China. I don't know how deep the quarry is so I told him to take a boat to the middle and drop a line to find out how deep it is. After doing this he claimed it was close to 200 feet in the middle. I asked him if he could see the train down there and he said no. He said it was clear pretty far down, but he couldn't see the bottom. I talked to my frined who dives and he said it was too deep to dive on but possibly could drop a cable and hook it and try pulling it out. I am not sure how much a small train would weigh, but I doubt it could be pulled out with a dozer or such. I was thinking of trying to float it up but haven't figured out how to get the floatation down there yet. I will have to give it more thought to determine if its feasible. Good Luck. rockhound

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Hi Rock hound, very, very. interesting, I would suggest that you copy this and post it in shipwrecks for ideas. Lot's of pro divers in there. Generally 100 ft is the basic limit on compressed air but mixed gases can easily go that deep.

I am sure that they can give you some excellent advice, and would love the mental challenge of working it out for you.

Myself, most of my diving was around 30 ft or less.

--> http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/board,5.0.html

Gracias for posting this interesting story, Keep us advised of any follow up.

Don jose de La Mancha

 

[rockhound]

Thanks for the heads up. I have not done the estimates of what a boxcar worth of 1920's bone China would be worth, or if it would even be profitable to salvage. Also, I have to be realistic, if some of it is broken, there may not be complete sets, and also, if it were wrapped in paper or stacks of cardboard, would that have deteoriated and caused damage to the China? Too many unknowns at this point to make an informed decision of its feasiblity. My friend who is a certified diver wasn't too keen on the idea, not knowing what hazards he might encounter down there, especially below the natural light visiblity of the water. The informant claimed that several railroad ties were floating on top of the water, which tells me the tracks are breaking up or have already rusted and broken up. Also at that depth, the water would be very cold. It would possibly be a huge undertaking and may be a bust. The train would probably not be salvagable after that many years. The only draw would be the bone China. I will have to think about this one more before deciding if it would be profitable. Good Luck. rockhound

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

I would really love to learn SCUBA. For S & G's if nothing else.

I was certified SCBA for years, but never got to expand that certification.

What happens underwater (this is for anyone who knows), when you have low air or an air problem. We almost had a guy die during a chemical incident when his regulator froze up right after his alarm went off. We had to cut the face mask, because it was literally sucked onto his face, and nobody could get it off. (and of course, the darned fresh air valve wouldn't open, either).

Does scuba have any of those types of problems? Or can you eliminate that problem by not using the facemask type, and use the type that goes in your mouth?

I'd love to find a SCUBA school somewhere near here, but, the only one we had folded up a couple of years ago.

Beth

 

[poorhunter78]

I would really love to learn SCUBA. For S & G's if nothing else.

I was certified SCBA for years, but never got to expand that certification.

What happens underwater (this is for anyone who knows), when you have low air or an air problem. We almost had a guy die during a chemical incident when his regulator froze up right after his alarm went off. We had to cut the face mask, because it was literally sucked onto his face, and nobody could get it off. (and of course, the darned fresh air valve wouldn't open, either).

Does scuba have any of those types of problems? Or can you eliminate that problem by not using the facemask type, and use the type that goes in your mouth?

I'd love to find a SCUBA school somewhere near here, but, the only one we had folded up a couple of years ago.

Beth

I too would love to learn this.. Although I have never actually learned to swim.. I am not afraid to bail in the water and go.. I have swam before when I had too, Just never properly learned.. Never really needed to swim.. As I just wade where the water was not over my chin..

Rockhound: That sounds like a job for a Crane.. But like you say is it profitable enough to need that Expense..

 

[rockhound]

I don't think the owner will allow us to dive in the quarry, something to do with his insurance. He is afraid of someone getting hurt and bringing a law suit against him. Even offering to sign an agreement, he is reluctant to agree to give us the go ahead. Good Luck. rockhound

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

3
Old Hernandez asking me if 'I would go with him' was like asking a man lost in the desert, without any water for three days, if he would like a drink of water, sheesh.

Trying to appear nonchelont, I caught Lupe spying over by the kitchen door and signaled her to bring more coffee and rolls. She momentarily distracted Hernandez and gave me an opportunity to start serious talk.

"Where is the jumping off point"? I asked, 'Sahuaripa" he replied, "from there we head ------ for three days with the animals, to where the trail drops off into the canyon". "Ok then, we need two or three weeks of supplies and animals to carry them. Can we get them in Sahuaripa"?
"Of course, there is a group of our order there that will help us". "Fine, I replied," now for what we will need"------.

We spent the next few days plotting and planning, this kept Lupe running back and forth. I gradually assembled the equipment etc. Rechecked my old Studebaker pickup, bought 6 new 6 ply truck tires for it and rechecked the timing etc. She was ready to go.

As usual on the next to the last day I had some business come up that had to be done first, so I sent Old Hernandez off on the bus to
meet with his friends in Sahuaripa to arrange things at that end. Meanwhile I intended to take a short cut using an old road which was shown on the map of Sonora

Before he left, Hernandez appeared dragging a lanky, kinda unkempt guy, which he introduced as a fellow Hallelujah, saying that he would appreciate it if I took him to Sahuaripa. Of course I had to agree, although the pore truck was already overloaded.
So the big day finally arrived and off we went.

Within a few hours I realized that I had made a big mistake, the map had shown a nice dirt, back road, but in actuality it hadn't been used for a number of years. Yes it was dirt, but overlain with years of sharp rocks from the flooding. About 3 hours late I had the first flat.

Now changing a tire in those days was a bit different from today. First I had to build up a platform for the odd sized jack to lift the truck high enough clear the tire, then remove it from the truck. Next I had to separate the tire from the rim using two large bars, not a very easy task, then pull the inner tube out of the tire casing , patch it, replace it, pound the tire casing back over the rim, then start pumping some 350 times to inflate it. Then of course finally mounting it removing the jack, a matter of between 1/2 and 1 hr.

So off we went for perhaps 20 minutes, sigh, another flat. Fix that, and on for another hr, perhaps. So it went all of the way to Sahuaripa for two days. My passenger each time would retire to the shade of a tall plant or cactus as sit while reading from a pocket sized prayer book, thanking the Lord for sending along this fine young man to repair the tires, not once did he offer to help.

Well after this hop skip form of travel, we finally arrived in Sahuaripa, my lazy guide located our host's house and we finally settled down for the Mexican habitual coffee for guests.

Hernandez very seriously leaned forward and said "I am sorry to give you bad news Don Jose but due to the drought, there are no animals to be had here for any price". Our host interrupted him and said "there might just be a chance, let me talk to the Obispo. Shortly he returned leading a blind man whom he introduced as the Obispo. He carefully explained our situation to the Obispo, who shortly said, "I am sorry my friends, we can only offer you my riding mule, and that for only 3 days. I have to make my rounds again. sigh.

Later I asked Hernandez who took the Obispo on his rounds, He looked at me, then sorta grinned, and said "no one Don Jose, he travels through out this part of the sierras alone, just he and his mule. the mule knows the way and the stops. I asked him how the Obispo had been blinded, he again kinda grinned, and said "He used to be the wildest, drunkenest hellraiser, and womanizer around here, then one day in the Sierras a lightening bolt struck near him leaving him blind. He then became a believer in Dios and joined our order".

About this time my lazy passenger showed up in clean new clothes and showed hat he now had some money. I asked Hernandez abut this, He explained "we believe that whatever we have must shared, if you appear in a torn shirt I must give you one of mine". So it turned out that my passenger was a parasite that lived off of these simple, but good people. Since our trip was cancelled for that year, I volunteered to take him back to Alamos where he was well known to relieve our host of his presence.

Since we could not travel on the paved highway because my tires were soo out of balance from the many patches, we couldn't
go over 30 miles per hr, I was stuck with returning the same way I had come. sigh.

The return trip was the same as the first ugh. I finally had to burn holes in the casing to pass 1/4 20 x1" bolts which I used insert patches to hold the side cuts together. Just before we finally reached a used dirt road, we had our final flat. I had enough and went to where my guest was sitting in the shade with his prayer book and drug him back to the tire lying on it's side and told him to take it apart, then went into the brush for a supposed sanitary mission - well a two finger signal.

About 1/2 hr later when I returned he was just as I had left him, leaning on one of the bars to take the casing off of the rim. When I asked him why he hadn't taken it apart so that I could fix it, he simply whined "I don't know how"? ths after a counted 27 flats in two days? sigh, I gave up.

Fortunately Lupe was still prancing around when I managed to reach home, and without asking, brought me a huge cuppa coffee. sigh 'heaven I thought as I sorta wriggled down comfortably in the chair watching Lupe doing her wriggle.

next try ---->