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  1. #1
    um
    Nemo me impune lacesset

    Jan 2005
    DAKOTA TERRITORY
    Tesoro Lobo Supertraq, (95%) Garrett Scorpion (5%)
    5,710
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    Lost Vainopa mine

    I am looking for any information on the lost Vainopa mine, which was in the same general region as Tayopa and lost at almost the same time (the miners were supposedly wiped out to a man by the Apaches) and never found again. Any information would be appreciated. Thank you in advance,
    Oroblanco
    SUPPORT THE BEEF INDUSTRY - EAT BEEF
    "We must find a way, or we will make one."--Hannibal Barca

  2. #2
    mx
    Nov 2004
    Alamos,Sonora,Mexico
    11,190
    2330 times

    Re: Lost Vainopa mine

    HI & ?? More data please. It may lie in the Espobachi mineral zone. There are rumors of two large mines/camps there, an extremely rich area.

    Tropical Tramp
    "I exist to live, not live to exist"

  3. #3
    um
    Nemo me impune lacesset

    Jan 2005
    DAKOTA TERRITORY
    Tesoro Lobo Supertraq, (95%) Garrett Scorpion (5%)
    5,710
    1637 times

    Re: Lost Vainopa mine

    HOLA Tropical Tramp,
    All I have on Vainopa was a mention of it in a list of "minas" that dates to 1630s and a passing mention by Carl Lumholtz who said he passed through the area in his explorations; it is not too close to Tayopa (three days travel, what ever that can mean in that terrifically rough country) but had quite a number of miners and produced both silver and gold, but I suspect the major commodity was the silver and the gold was by-product. I have notes (in storage) with a bit more, but never followed up on it as the description is just too vague with no good starting point or close landmark. I do remember reading that Vainopa was supposed to be remote and not "on the way" to any other town. Any info you might have heard or read would be appreciated.
    Oroblanco
    SUPPORT THE BEEF INDUSTRY - EAT BEEF
    "We must find a way, or we will make one."--Hannibal Barca

  4. #4
    mx
    Nov 2004
    Alamos,Sonora,Mexico
    11,190
    2330 times

    Re: Lost Vainopa mine

    I need to get a copy of his book also "Unknown Mexico" by Box. Box was mine oriented aparently. He describes rich mines and placers which are still not exploited.

    Is it supposedly Norh South, West or ? from Tayopa.

    The Espobchi field lies about 1 day from Tayopa itself.

    Tropical Tramp
    "I exist to live, not live to exist"

  5. #5
    um
    Nemo me impune lacesset

    Jan 2005
    DAKOTA TERRITORY
    Tesoro Lobo Supertraq, (95%) Garrett Scorpion (5%)
    5,710
    1637 times

    Re: Lost Vainopa mine

    HOLA Tropical Tramp and thanks for the reply - I wish I knew more, don't know which direction from Tayopa. If I were going to guess a direction I would GUESS north, but that is pure guessing.
    Oroblanco
    SUPPORT THE BEEF INDUSTRY - EAT BEEF
    "We must find a way, or we will make one."--Hannibal Barca

  6. #6
    us
    Ken Chichester

    Apr 2003
    Phoenix, AZ
    Tesoro Lobo, Minelab Sovereign XS 2 Pro and Fisher 2 box
    137
    3 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting

    Re: Lost Vainopa mine

    Quote Originally Posted by Oroblanco
    HOLA Tropical Tramp,
    All I have on Vainopa was a mention of it in a list of "minas" that dates to 1630s and a passing mention by Carl Lumholtz who said he passed through the area in his explorations; it is not too close to Tayopa (three days travel, what ever that can mean in that terrifically rough country) but had quite a number of miners and produced both silver and gold, but I suspect the major commodity was the silver and the gold was by-product. I have notes (in storage) with a bit more, but never followed up on it as the description is just too vague with no good starting point or close landmark. I do remember reading that Vainopa was supposed to be remote and not "on the way" to any other town. Any info you might have heard or read would be appreciated.
    Oroblanco
    I just read this post from Nov 28, 2006 and can only suggest that you look at the article he did for AGS

    Journal of the American Geographical Society of New York, Vol. 23, 1891 (1891), pp. 386-402
    doi:10.2307/196595
    Report on Explorations in Northern Mexico
    by Carl Lumholtz
    This article consists of 17 page(s).

    so sorry about being so long in catching this but if you are still looking for it... no harm in a little reading unless that is the " passing mention" you refer to.
    -Ken
    Never, never give up

  7. #7
    um
    Nemo me impune lacesset

    Jan 2005
    DAKOTA TERRITORY
    Tesoro Lobo Supertraq, (95%) Garrett Scorpion (5%)
    5,710
    1637 times

    Re: Lost Vainopa mine

    Greetings Ken,
    Thank you very much for the tip, I will hunt it up. I never 'give up' on any lost mine unless I know it has been found and is now owned by someone. Your reference is not the one I found, so hopefully it will have something more specific, at least as a starting point.

    With the recent changes in Mexican mining law, and the incident reported by our mutual friend Real de Tayopa (that a group of investors have filed claim to ALL the open lands in Mexico) any expedition I hope to make has to await developments. I find it hard to believe that the government will accept the claims from that group of investors, I expect that their claims will be vacated (sooner or later). In the meantime I can't afford to make the trip at the moment, but I expect that will change in the next year or so.

    Thanks again Ken, I owe you one!
    your friend,
    Roy A. Decker ~ Oroblanco
    SUPPORT THE BEEF INDUSTRY - EAT BEEF
    "We must find a way, or we will make one."--Hannibal Barca

  8. #8
    us
    Ken Chichester

    Apr 2003
    Phoenix, AZ
    Tesoro Lobo, Minelab Sovereign XS 2 Pro and Fisher 2 box
    137
    3 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting

    Re: Lost Vainopa mine

    Quote Originally Posted by Oroblanco
    With the recent changes in Mexican mining law, and the incident reported by our mutual friend Real de Tayopa (that a group of investors have filed claim to ALL the open lands in Mexico) any expedition I hope to make has to await developments. I find it hard to believe that the government will accept the claims from that group of investors, I expect that their claims will be vacated (sooner or later).
    Roy-
    Since reading posts on this site for almost ten years, I have seen little about launching treasure jaunts into Mexico. Somewhere in my boxes of old papers I have a copy of a map I drew for an engineering friend of mine back in the 80's. I was employed as a draftsman for a very large company and he was my boss and the son/grandson of folks who regularly withdrew ore from a mine about ten miles from the west coast of Mexico.
    He had plans to get financial backing to move the ore, containing nickel, gold, copper and a variety of other metals to ships using a fleet of trucks. I suggested using a rubber lined pipeline and move the ore in a slurry. No maintenance on the vehicles and less of a chance of theft.
    He showed me color pictures of the vein they were working by hand. It was calculated to be a nearly horizontal slab one meter thick exiting the earth on the side of a mountain. It ran approximately 900 feet along the mountain side and sloped at fifty four degrees as it descended under the mountain top.
    As a side note both his father and his grandfather were killed at the site on different occasions. He said the Indians got both of them, but who knows?
    His statements to me was that Mexico had politicians that were easily bribed and he had no problem as they were now his friends. $$$$$
    I never gave it another thought until recently when happenings in Mexico became news items.
    Do ya think that maybe that old map might just be a ticket to...
    Just thinking about diggin thru boxes... Ken
    Never, never give up

  9. #9
    um
    Nemo me impune lacesset

    Jan 2005
    DAKOTA TERRITORY
    Tesoro Lobo Supertraq, (95%) Garrett Scorpion (5%)
    5,710
    1637 times

    Re: Lost Vainopa mine

    Greetings Ken,

    If I were you, I would sure hunt up the old maps - after all what do you have to lose? It doesn't hurt to look into it...$$$$$$$$$

    Good luck and good hunting my friend, I hope you find the treasures that you seek.
    your friend,
    Roy ~ Oroblanco
    SUPPORT THE BEEF INDUSTRY - EAT BEEF
    "We must find a way, or we will make one."--Hannibal Barca

  10. #10
    us
    Ken Chichester

    Apr 2003
    Phoenix, AZ
    Tesoro Lobo, Minelab Sovereign XS 2 Pro and Fisher 2 box
    137
    3 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting

    Re: Lost Vainopa mine

    Roy-
    I just hate it when someone shoots at me. Makes me real mad if ya know what I mean. That's the main reason I never thought about goin there. It is real wilderness from what I remember when the map was drawn.
    I think maybe I should try to find the guy who had me make the drawings in the first place. He just might be there now.
    -Ken
    Never, never give up

  11. #11
    um
    Nemo me impune lacesset

    Jan 2005
    DAKOTA TERRITORY
    Tesoro Lobo Supertraq, (95%) Garrett Scorpion (5%)
    5,710
    1637 times

    Re: Lost Vainopa mine

    Well no treasure is worth dying for - after all how could a guy spend it from the coffin! (haha) Seriously, I thought you meant the dangers were from the "old days" when the Indians were hostile, like in the Apache wars etc - not from modern times. There are still folks who will shoot today, and can really spoil a trip!

    Perhaps it is not worth even looking up the old map, if you cannot safely go to the place without risking being shot at. There are plenty of other lost mines and lost treasures to hunt for after all.

    Oroblanco
    SUPPORT THE BEEF INDUSTRY - EAT BEEF
    "We must find a way, or we will make one."--Hannibal Barca

  12. #12
    Charter Member

    Dec 2005
    Arizona
    5,756
    989 times

    Re: Lost Vainopa mine

    Roy,

    I have decided that the Vainopa Mine will be my next project. Since it is in Mexico, it will require more time than just weekends. I have decided that moving to Mexico is the only alternative. To facilitate that move, I have sent a letter to our President asking for his personal assistance. This is the letter:
    _____________________________________________

    Dear Mr. President:

    I'm planning to move my family and extended family into Mexico for my health, and I would like to ask you to assist me.

    We're planning to simply walk across the border from the U.S. into Mexico , and we'll need your help to make a few arrangements.

    We plan to skip all the legal stuff like visas, passports, immigration quotas and laws.

    I'm sure they handle those things the same way you do here. So, would you mind telling your buddy, President Calderon, that I'm on my way over?

    Please let him know that I will be expecting the following:

    1. Free medical care for my entire family.

    2. English-speaking government bureaucrats for all services I might need, whether I use them or not.

    3. Please print all Mexican government forms in English.

    4. I want my grandkids to be taught Spanish by English-speaking (bi-lingual) teachers.

    5. Tell their schools they need to include classes on American culture and history.

    6. I want my grandkids to see the American flag on one of the flag poles at their school.

    7. Please plan to feed my grandkids at school for both breakfast and lunch.

    8. I will need a local Mexican driver's license so I can get easy access to government services.

    9. I do plan to get a car and drive in Mexico but I don't plan to purchase car insurance, and I probably won't make any special effort to learn local traffic laws.

    10. In case one of the Mexican police officers does not get the memo from their president to leave me alone, please be sure that every patrol car has at least one English-speaking officer.

    11. I plan to fly the U.S. flag from my house top, put U. S. flag decals on my car, and have a gigantic celebration on July 4th. I do not want any complaints or negative comments from the locals.

    12. I would also like to have a nice job without paying any taxes, or have any labor or tax laws enforced on any business I may start.

    13. Please have the president tell all the Mexican people to be extremely nice and never say critical things about me or my family, or about the strain we might place on their economy.

    14. I want to receive free food stamps.

    15. Naturally, I'll expect free rent subsidies.

    16. I'll need Income tax credits so although I don't pay Mexican Taxes, I'll receive money from the government.

    17. Please arrange it so that the Mexican Gov't pays $4,500 to help me buy a new car.

    18. Oh yes, I almost forgot, please enroll me free into the Mexican Social Security program so that I'll get a monthly income in retirement.

    I know this is an easy request because you already do all these things for all his people who walk over to the U.S. from Mexico . I am sure that President Calderon won't mind returning the favor if you ask him nicely.

    Thank you so much for your kind help.

    Respectfully,

    Joe Ribaudo
    _________________________________________________

    I am hoping to enlist the aid of our good friend Don Jose de Igotmine.

    Take care,

    Joe

  13. #13
    um
    Nemo me impune lacesset

    Jan 2005
    DAKOTA TERRITORY
    Tesoro Lobo Supertraq, (95%) Garrett Scorpion (5%)
    5,710
    1637 times

    Re: Lost Vainopa mine

    Well I sure do wish you luck - I don't have much in the way of info on this one. (Hence the "fishing" thread) Could have been a guano mine for all I know at this point. I hope you will keep us posted with your discoveries and the requests.
    Roy
    SUPPORT THE BEEF INDUSTRY - EAT BEEF
    "We must find a way, or we will make one."--Hannibal Barca

  14. #14
    mx
    Nov 2004
    Alamos,Sonora,Mexico
    11,190
    2330 times

    Re: Lost Vainopa mine

    Sorry Joe, it is only a Silver mine, not an igot mine.

    Don Jose de Igotmine
    "I exist to live, not live to exist"

  15. #15
    mx
    Nov 2004
    Alamos,Sonora,Mexico
    11,190
    2330 times

    Re: Lost Vainopa mine

    Ladies & Gentlemen: I have finally found the book that I have been looking for for some years. It has recently been reprinted and I have ordered one. Yes Oro, you will get a copy, or read it. As far as I know it covers Arizona also - Superstitions?

    'Adventures and explorations in New & Old Mexico / Michael James Box.' 1869.

    He was a captain and wandered throughout the Western states and Mexico for 10 years prospecting and checking into the various mineral fields. Quotes, such as "I ventured further up the arroyo and under an over hang, with my coffee cup, I managed to scrape out ----grains. a man could make a good living here".

    He visited many old mining areas, mines, and placer fields in his search, areas that are effectively unknown today. The Superstitions?

    See what a gentlemen I am? Sharing this knowledge with you instead of hoarding it for myself.

    Am too Oro, the fact that I will not check the Az and New Mexico areas, and doubt that anyone will come to Mexico, leaving me free down here, has nothing to do with it, sniff. Just a nice guy and gentleman.

    Don Jose de La Mancha
    "I exist to live, not live to exist"

 

 
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