Reality?

[bodi]

Markmar,
To assume that I have not done my research is comical! Believe me sir, I have done my fair share of research! I would love to share with you all of my photos and theories, however this is not the platform that I would do so, and this is not the thread I started. Now obviously you have a theory, what is your plan if it works out? What would the outcome be of turning in gold bars?
Did you know that you need a tax id number to take gold to a refinery? Or to any cash for gold, but you will only get about 40% of the value?
Again I have done my research!!

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

Family Maps of Hinds County, Mississippi, Deluxe Edition - Grab it through Amazon!

[markmar]

bodi

I know , you have started a thread about Tayopa . Why you don't claim the Tayopa 2 ? We have debate about it and is in a " free " land in Mexico . Now about Arizona , all the famous lost mines are in wilderness area ( exept Lue cache which is about 50 yards off ) and for the moment remain closed for a legal exploitation . I like to find lost mines , but my interest is only about the caches which are inside .

 

[Interested Party in UK]

Hey Don Tayopa

This one is for you me old mate:

I have been reading through some old books about the Chiricahua Apaches and came across a reference to a possible location to the Tayopa mines. It is more than probable that there was a miscommunication and/or a possible lost in translation issue with this story but I would like to run it past you anyway. Some Apache warriors related a story of their old ways when they lived in the Sierra Madre mountains, whilst they were PoW in Oklahoma territory. During the 1880s when they were living south of the border and were away raiding, there was an attack on their base camp in the mountains by civilian Mexicans with some indigenous scouts who carried away most of their women folk and children. When the warriors returned from their raid they were very distraught to discover what had happened and decided to set out to recover their families and kin folk. After making various scouting trips, they discovered that the captives were being used to work in mines in terrible conditions. They formulated a plan to rescue their fellow Apaches and secretly communicated messages to them. They were notified that the best time to try and free them would be during a Sunday when all the miners and villagers would be in church and the Apaches held in a prison like structure with only a light guard. The warriors being adept at guerrilla warfare and stealth put their plan into action and killed the guards quietly and barricaded the church entrance which also served as the exit. They then sent some warriors to drop 'bombs' made from various concoctions from a small opening in the roof and whilst the people inside panicked at the smoke and fire, the rest of the warriors released the Apaches and fled into the mountains (not before managing to relieve the Mexicans of some saddle bags of gold and silver which they later cached to be used in emergencies). They then targeted the small village numerous times and killed all travellers and visitors to it during the next few years, causing it to be abandoned.


I have looked through and attempted to sort some type of timescale and timeframe. It would appear that when telling the story in the 20th century, those wily old Apaches perhaps located the incident about a decade too late and in fact it may have taken place in the 1870s. The old warriors were asked about possible mining locations in the Sierra Madres and they related this story. The author believed that it might have corresponded with attempts to reopen the old Tayopa mines that were then stopped due to the Apache threat. I do not know much about Tayopa, its legends or its history; just that this was interesting. By the way, they said it was very close to the Sonora/Chihuahua border area and was situated in a very difficult location with an old set of buildings and mining dumps and debris.

Thought I'd run it past you because I am always willing to look-up and into old Chiricahua Apache accounts due to their amazing history.


IPUK

 

[Oroblanco]

Markmar wrote

Now about Arizona , all the famous lost mines are in wilderness area ( exept Lue cache which is about 50 yards off ) and for the moment remain closed for a legal exploitation .

Well I would have to respectfully disagree, since virtually all of the now-famous lost mines in Arizona remain lost, it is not possible to state for certainty where they may or ma y not be in relation to various wilderness areas. Also, not sure if you would class it among the lost today but the old and once-famous lost Mojave mine, west of Quartzsite, <found in the late 19th century so is not lost today> is well outside of any wilderness area, and ditto for the Vekol, the Silver King among others. Plus one not-so-famous lost mine I know of, is very definitely not within any wilderness area. No further comment on that one however.

Please do continue, did not mean to derail the topic.
Oroblanco

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

G'd afternoon my Britlander friend IPUK: Tea time? Frankly as an individual story it does not strike a bell or click, but as a subsidiary of a comb of deriviivte tales of Tayopa and the Sierras in the 1800's it does.

YES, The Apaches were in Tayopa, presumably when it was deserted, we found a cave illuminated by bias relief, which looked just like a snaggy toothed skull where they stored food and weapons - no we have not molested it yet, but wil eventuality,l, may even invite some Apaches to participate, but this will be after we develop more on our present project and finally reach an agreement with Mexico city.

At this point I am no longer greedy,<-- ( typical treasure hunter ) according to present populae trends, just would like to end it with a bit of retirement funds, and a detachment on Marines up there to protect things and people..a bit wild up there.

I have enough to do in rhis comlpex alone, to keep me occupied for the next 50 - 60 years, unless oro get's off of his----.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Oroblanco]

Don Jose, el gringo de la Mancha wrote

I have enough to do in rhis comlpex alone, to keep me occupied for the next 50 - 60 years, unless oro get's off of his----

Say no more compadre - my pack is already packed to go, what time do you want me there tomorrow? Should I bring your dip-needle?

 

[Interested Party in UK]

G'd afternoon my Britlander friend IPUK: Tea time? Frankly as an individual story it does not strike a bell or click, but as a subsidiary of a comb of deriviivte tales of Tayopa and the Sierras in the 1800's it does.

YES, The Apaches were in Tayopa, presumably when it was deserted, we found a cave illuminated by bias relief, which looked just like a snaggy toothed skull where they stored food and weapons - no we have not molested it yet, but wil eventuality,l, may even invite some Apaches to participate, but this will be after we develop more on our present project and finally reach an agreement with Mexico city.

At this point I am no longer greedy,<-- ( typical treasure hunter ) according to present populae trends, just would like to end it with a bit of retirement funds, and a detachment on Marines up there to protect things and people..a bit wild up there.

I have enough to do in rhis comlpex alone, to keep me occupied for the next 50 - 60 years, unless oro get's off of his----.

Don Jose de La Mancha

Hello Don Tayopa

I have made a conscious decision that when in Rome do as...So a nice cuppa that special corffeeeeee that all T/hunters are all so fond of when out in the field if you don't mind me old mate.

The Apache of the Sierra Madres - the Chiricahuas - were perhaps the greatest of their nation and have, rightfully, taken their place in history and in the land which they once roamed with impunity. Of course this is not denigrating the other indigenous groups there, simply saying that the Chiricahua where interwoven in the fabric of the two great nations either side of the border and the ancient, heroic story of down the ages since Spanish times. Fascinating.

If you ever are in need of someone to go a mooching around looking for booty, I know just the man

And it is not me...........

Even in this day and age, to think and imagine the wild and lonely places that still exist in those mysterious mountains..., well, it gets the pulse racing somewhat.

I sincerely hope you get a maximum return from your endeavours.


IPUK

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

G'd morning Ipuk, yer coffee is ready, thanks to Oro. To date the pay off has been entirely on the ego side, not a single cent has crossed my palm. sigh, but it has been fun. Every emotion, including fear, has been wrung out in the oddesy of Tayopa.

Who knows what tomorrow may bring.

Don Jose de La Mancha.

 

[markmar]

Roy

I meant the mines which officially are lost in the present archives . Unofficially are lost only for those who don't know where are .
Maybe many of the mines which you have mentioned , for sure now would been in a wilderness area if were not been uncovered before the wilderness acts .

 

[Oroblanco]

Roy

I meant the mines which officially are lost in the present archives . Unofficially are lost only for those who don't know where are .
Maybe many of the mines which you have mentioned , for sure now would been in a wilderness area if were not been uncovered before the wilderness acts .

Very good explanation amigo, except for one thing - these lost mines which you state are in wilderness areas, are still lost, therefore we can not say where they are exactly. As in, I can say the Lost Dutchman mine is in Arizona - but exactly where, inside the Superstitions Wilderness Area or no, I can not say.

Thank you for explaining, and my apologies to the thread owner for derailing the topic.
Oroblanco

 

[markmar]

Roy

You have not derailed the topic , because the thread owner wrote in a previous post " My theory is that tayopa, tommacocuri, the apache gold, and Jacob waltz's mine are all in the same place ".

I believe the LDM is in wilderness area in the Superstitions . One day , you will understand how all this time I Knew about its location .

 

[bodi]

Markmar,
You are correct, however anything south of the salt river is national forest land. If you are so confident then show us the 18" vein of gold. That would not give away your location!!
Or how about even easier one- how about the pointed rock with a hole through it? Or the pointed rock that he said was to the south- that you had to climb a steep ravine from above the mine to see.
Because the pics that you've posted are not very convincing. So unless you can show SOMETHING, please stop saying that you know for certain where its at. Because I can guarantee that I have been with feet of it, and I still can't find it. And I do have all of those pics.

 

[bodi]

 

[Oroblanco]

Markmar wrote

Roy


You have not derailed the topic , because the thread owner wrote in a previous post " My theory is that tayopa, tommacocuri, the apache gold, and Jacob waltz's mine are all in the same place ".


I believe the LDM is in wilderness area in the Superstitions . One day , you will understand how all this time I Knew about its location .

It seems we always end up in misunderstandings amigo. Respectfully I must disagree, for you have not proven that you "knew" the location of the Lost Dutchman mine nor any of those listed in your post.


You posted earlier,

Now about Arizona , all the famous lost mines are in wilderness area ( exept Lue cache which is about 50 yards off ) and for the moment remain closed for a legal exploitation .

What then did you mean by "all" of the famous lost mines? Do you include the Belle McKeever, the lost Soldier mine, the Camel Tanks mine, the Six Shooter mine, the Shoemaker's placer, Big Antelope, the San Pedro, Isabella, the Purisma Concepcion, the Opata silver, the Virgin de Guadeloupe, the Esmerelda, the Wandering Jew (well this one is found, not lost) the Black Maverick, the Squaw Hollow mine, the lost Adams diggings, the Cowboy mine, the lost Dutchman mine of the Vultures or the lost Dutchman mine of the Bradshaws, or Espejo's lost silver mines? All of these were once, and many still are famous. These are scattered all over Arizona, they can hardly ALL be within Wilderness Areas.


Since you have not yet proven that you found the mines you named as being in the Superstitions Wilderness Area, how can we then say that they ARE in that Wilderness Area? It would be more like a statement of belief, than of fact, correct?


My apologies for the misunderstanding (again) and if my disbelief of evidence obtained by satellite or aerial images seems unreasonable, consider that a great number of professed experts in the art of deciphering satellite imagery, of better resolution than we are able to obtain, cannot find a missing 777 airliner over 26 days of constant searching. By comparison, an old, probably well concealed hole in the ground which brush has possibly helped to conceal, is not likely to be picked out by any aerial photography.


Good luck and good hunting Markmar, perhaps one day I will see the proof that you knew the locations of the mines, I really hope that is the case. However if you truly do know those locations, why then do you not do something to obtain some of the gold and silver? Or some photos of the gold veins, silver veins etc? That would go a long way to convince people.
Oroblanco

 

[markmar]

Oroblanco

You are right .