Old Mine Shaft??

J.A.A.

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Good evening to all TN'ers-

May I humbly request you join me in a cup of slow roasted goodness!

I've been a member for just over a year now yet have been reading for a several years. I've greatly enjoyed the stories, the history (this one especially), banter, camaraderie, and, yes, even the sarcasm when one seems to feel another is encroaching on his "domain" or questioning his word. Please, please, keep it up. It eases the mind to know that, by the time my 8 month old daughter is old enough to learn the REAL history of the world, her school books will not actually be about a tv show called The Real World.

With that, here's some armchair TH'ing for ya. I was floating around Google Earth and came across an odd point of visual interest. If I didn't know any better (and I probably don't) it looks like an opening into the ground. I've posted this here because it's located in the rough vicinity of Don Jose's tayopa (or, at least the saw mill that overlooks it). Check out the coordinates at the bottom of this post. It's probably nothing more than a small pond/large puddle, but what caught my attention....it's almost perfectly square!

Again, keep the years of acquired experiences and knowledge coming! This means you guys Tropical Tramp, Oroblanco, etc. Even though you guys (and other TH'ers) will live well into your 200's, in the event this doesn't happen (and the hand that would write your story prematurely begins to shake like a dog s..ting peach pits), we'll need these posts/threads to keep the memories & history alive!

27• 56' 5"N 109• 4' 43"W
*from an altitude of about 750'

Your humble and interested student-
Justin
 

Oroblanco

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Justin - WELCOME and speaking for everyone, thank you for the very kind words! We often forget that many others are reading our discussions and debates, whom are not always also posting.

Since you are clearly intelligent enough to discern our often silly sarcasm - I will now state my official opinion on that unusual feature you found - clearly, it is a natural fish pond! :tongue3: (just kidding!) Thank you for posting it, my honest opinion is that it is one of the shafts of the old mines of Tayopa, not Teter's which was a tunnel, though if I were to guess at exactly which mine (eg Remedios etc) I could not venture a guess.

This ought to put a fire under out mutual and afortunado amigo Don Jose el Tropical Tramp to get cracking on opening those mines up! The coverings are starting to fall through!

Thank you again Justin, and I hope you will keep on posting too!
Roy ~ Oroblanco
 

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J.A.A.

J.A.A.

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Roy/Don Jose/Others-

Is it also my imagination or is the shaft filled to the top with water? I would guess this is common, especially after many years of sitting dormant.

Thanks in advance-
Justin

P.S. I know others have said this before but, I too will be requesting an advance copy of any book, article, periodical, or stone tablet that tells the tale(s) with which most of us can only dream about! This means anyone (Don Jose, Roy) that has spent a lifetime hunting for the shear joy of the hunt (and maybe a little pocket change as well!).
 

Springfield

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Is it also my imagination or is the shaft filled to the top with water? I would guess this is common, especially after many years of sitting dormant...
No, it's not your imagination - it is filled with water. It's a 150' square stock tank on the dirt road a mile southwest of the La Poza ranch. Without topo contours, it's hard to say for sure, but it looks like the tank is filled from overland flows from the northeast. It looks like the tank's spillway is on its south corner where the water runs into a short ravine that empties into the big arroyo to the west. Mine shafts aren't this large, and open mining cuts are normally not perfect squares. It's a stock tank for the cattle.
 

Nov 8, 2004
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Tally Ho Springfield. Also I have personally yet to see a mine shaft full to the top with water, unless it is in the bottom of an arroyo or canyon.-- course it can happen. Another thing, very few of the old Spanish mine owners would waste the effort or scarce materiel to make a square cut, they just bored down no wider than necessary until they could no longer supply enough oxygen by fires for the labor, then simply stoped their way back up, dumping waste rock back into the shaft This makes cleaning out old shafts a risky financial proposition.

Of course I am speaking of the pre dynamite era.

This is what makes old Spanish workings soo difficult, one never knows if he is cleaning out a valuable mine or simply an abandoned prospect shaft..

In any event i will pass on a hot cuppa coffee to J.A.A. also for excellent work.

Don Jose de La Mancha

p.s. Most cattle watering tanks are ground profile orientated. so a square one is on flat land. ***** for Springfield.
 

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Oroblanco

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Don Jose el tunnel rat wrote
Also I have personally yet to see a mine shaft full to the top with water, unless it is in the bottom of an arroyo or canyon.-- course it can happen.

I found one at the very top of a hill in the Santa Ritas a year or so ago, which was something of a disappointment. How and why the old silver mine was so full of water, I can't explain.
 

Nov 8, 2004
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OK ORO, PROVE THAT YOU SAW IT FROM A RELIABLE SOURCE ( 05% ) catagory, -- The hounds from Baskervill will be acceptable since I have not yet heard them say anything to the contrary, i.e. if they will vouch for you I will accept it.

Psst never hear of a tapped artesian well feeding one ?


Don Jose d eLa Mancha

p,s., I believe that Don Jose will vouch for you --acceptable ( 100% )
 

Dr. Syn

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Feb 15, 2011
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Honored gentlemen, As for a shaft filling with water, would that not be similar to the spring on my farm? It's source is several hundred feet below the surface, yet has enough pressure to flow year round. Digging a shaft and breaking into such would easily fill the shaft to the top. As the coal mining companies found out at my place. They had to run huge pumps 24/7, lest they have a lake when they showed up for work.
 

Oroblanco

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Could be the case (spring, artesian) however an odd location for it, and Don Jose I will be more than happy to take you to see this mine in person, will arrange that for our next visit! :thumbsup:
 

Nov 8, 2004
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Now about that water filled mine oro?? Maybe info can fill in a bit on it ?? What mineral evidence remains around the collar of the mine? Gold, Silver, or Copper?

As I mentioned, yes it is quite possible,,in fact most land owners require as part of their permission for access on their land that All excess water be pumped into a tank for stock watering purposes.

On the infamous Quintera mine here, the open shaft is unprotected, It has a thin concrete collar, which is badly undercut by erosion so that anyone walking to the edge to peek down the shaft is literally walking on perhaps 3 -5 inches of unsupported, very weathered concrete, the stage set for a en extreme close up brief look of the shaft as you keep falling down -- really pretty darn scary.

On the other side of the same mt, in the brush, is another shaft, just sitting there wide open, no notice. I once dropped a large rock down the shaft and for perhaps 15 sec no activity except for the fluttering wings of the Bats then after centuries a dim splash..

The environ. people would get their jollies upon seeing it, and frankly in this case I agree -- it should be fenced or covered. Brush is growing right up to the lip of the shaft, no warning.

I can just imagine this type of situation up there in the Supers of Ariz. There would be many many missing peeps.

Once some Mexican friends invited me to go examine a mine nearby. When we arrived I had a no 1 finger problem so stayed behind while they entered the portal. I had no flashlight, but being new to Spanish mining tech, believed that I cculd simply feel my way to where they were.


When I entered the portal and reached the point of sheer blackness I could see their lights of above to my right and started to feel y up to them. They heard me and instantly yelled back, "don't move Don Jose stay exactly where you are." which I did from the urgency of their voices.

They shortly arrived and I saw just why they were so preoccupied, The Spanish had stoped out the entire inside . As they worked up they had spanned the open area of the workigs with logs, then covered the space between the logs with diagonal hardwoord branches than a bit of dirt covering that to keep them in place. I was out on this diagonal branch floor, however on both sides of me were huge open areas wherre falling fock had crashed through tiis thin floor, I could see where the huge rocks had crashed through many layers of these types of flooring and way, way down below, the glimmer of water illuminated by a dim glow from a tunnel entrance to one side, A few more steps and I wouldn't have been able to ever post in TN. Yer tough luck.


Anyway, I believe that you can see why I need Oro to preceed me in the actual investigation of some of the workings of Tayopa. He is expendible, "I" am not.

Don Jose de La Mancha
 

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Oroblanco

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Hola amigo - just want to be clear that mine (flooded) is in the Santa Ritas, not the Superstitions; the rock around the collar shows alteration and some mineralization, however little of the actual ore which was being mined (argentiferous galena) in fact only very tiny crystals of it can be found, though some of the waste rock has a nice specimen or two if you look hard. I wonder if it might not be possible to drain it by siphoning action alone, perhaps started by a good sized pump?

Oroblanco
 

Nov 8, 2004
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G'd afternoon coffee steward, none ready ??? Of course it can be drained by syphoning to an extent, but only to the depth of the surrounding elevations in reference to the shaft.. The time factor is another kettle of fish.

Put info and Junie to work.

Galena? hm I wonder if it was mined for smelting purposes or for Silver ??

Incidentally for some reason I had assued it was near the Ritas ??


Don Jose de La Mancha
 

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Oroblanco

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G'd afternoon coffee steward, none ready ??? Of course it can be drained by syphoning to an extent, but only to the depth of the surrounding elevations in reference to the shaft.. The time factor is another kettle of fish.

Put info and Junie to work.

Galena? hm I wonder if it was mined for smelting purposes or for Silver ??

Incidentally for some reason I had assued it was near the Ritas ??


Don Jose de La Mancha

It was definitely an old silver mine, but whether it has enough ore (or any) remaining to make it worth the effort is unknown, thanks to the surprise water. May be a huge waste of time to pump the water out only to find that the ore was mined out.
 

Nov 8, 2004
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Unfortunately my friend, that is the big problem in any old mine, Jesuit or otherwise. What lies down there???:coffee2::coffee2::coffee2:

Don Jose de La Mancha

p.s. remember they only mined to the depth that they could supply enough workable air by fire or duplicate circulation shafts. They then worked their way back up dumping the scrap materiel down into the shaft.
 

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Oroblanco

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Unfortunately my friend, that is the big problem in any old mine, Jesuit or otherwise. What lies down there???:coffee2::coffee2::coffee2:

Don Jose de La Mancha

p.s. remember they only mined to the depth that they could supply enough workable air by fire or duplicate circulation shafts. They then worked their way back up dumping the scrap materiel down into the shaft.

The mine in question, with water to the very top, is not an old Jesuit or Spanish mine, it is an old Anglo silver mine, which as you know was worked with dynamite, pneumatic drills etc. My reason for checking it out was to see if it was worth pursuing further, unfortunately it is very flooded. I am studying silver mines and ores, still learning in that area of my education.
 

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Don Jose el tunnel rat wrote


I found one at the very top of a hill in the Santa Ritas a year or so ago, which was something of a disappointment. How and why the old silver mine was so full of water, I can't explain.

Solution: siphon.

edit. oooopsie, upon further reading I see you had that already. i should finish a thread before yaking :D
 

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J.A.A.

J.A.A.

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Take a look at the strange feature using the GE coordinates below. Center the feature on your screen from about 21,000 feet above it. What do you see? If I'm not mistaken, it appears to be an ancient/dormant volcano, considering it's almost perfectly conical in shape, not to mention the spherical yet indented top that would be the tell-tale "spout" of any volcano. Again, I threw this post in this set of threads since the coordinates are in the vicinity of our Tropical Tramps Tayopa zone. Please pardon me. I'm bored and just doing a little "armchair THing" while laying around in bed fighting some sort of viral infection/kick-a$$ head cold. Probably just need to drop some alka seltzer cold & flu into a nice pot of coffee!

28• 6' 17"N 108• 56' 8"W

May the best of your yesterdays, be the worst of your tomorrows-
Justin
 

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