tayopa, legend or reality ...?

[the blindbowman]

Mi amigo Blindbowman - if I found ancient ruins in the Superstitions that looked like it had some kind of gardening, mud-stone buildings etc I would be thinking it is most likely Anasazi, Mogollon, Pima, Sinagua or one of the other ancient Arizonan tribes. But then that is me, I try to identify things based on what is most likely first, before going off in other directions.

How can you rule out that what you found is NOT ancient ruins of Anasazi, Mogollon, Sinagua etc? Thank you in advance,
Oroblanco

why did they hang crusifixs in their long house's with iron spikes

 

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[arkhunter]

oro...stop confusing him with the facts...

 

[the blindbowman]

oro...stop confusing him with the facts...

if we need jokes we will make them our selfs ... i am not confuse in the lest ... but some people are going to be very confused when the site 4 is proven ..

 

[arkhunter]

oro...stop confusing him with the facts...

if we need jokes we will make them our selfs ... i am not confuse in the lest ... but some people are going to be very confused when the site 4 is proven ..

i have seen the proof......a very long way from arizona

 

[the blindbowman]

i am not questioning what others think they see ... good night

 

[Oroblanco]

You are claiming that you found crucifixes in the Superstitions? Or are you saying that you found rusty old nails? If I found rusty old nails, I would think it is most likely traces left behind by Dutch-hunters.

The symbol of the cross was well known in America long before the arrival of Columbus, so finding a cross symbol would not instantly mean Spaniards.

It is very easy to jump from one conclusion to another, and make a mistake. The farther one proceeds from that error, the greater the error grows. Remember -"Recognize what is in your sight, and that which is hidden from you will become plain to you . For there is nothing hidden which will not become manifest."
(Gospel of Thomas)
In researching lost treasures, a treasure hunter ought to be as certain as he can about each discovery, to know what he has truly found - before making too many conclusions.

Think of how you would present your case as if it were in a "court-room" - for in effect you will be presenting it to the "court" of Public Opinion - and there will be many questions similar to what I and others have already asked you. People will want to see the proof in the pudding, and historians will insist on very good proof.
Oroblanco

 

[arkhunter]

awwwww..oro...there you go again...with truth and facts........that really puts a damper on a swell story....

 

[the blindbowman]

You are claiming that you found crucifixes in the Superstitions? Or are you saying that you found rusty old nails? If I found rusty old nails, I would think it is most likely traces left behind by Dutch-hunters.

The symbol of the cross was well known in America long before the arrival of Columbus, so finding a cross symbol would not instantly mean Spaniards.

It is very easy to jump from one conclusion to another, and make a mistake. The farther one proceeds from that error, the greater the error grows. Remember -"Recognize what is in your sight, and that which is hidden from you will become plain to you . For there is nothing hidden which will not become manifest."
(Gospel of Thomas)
In researching lost treasures, a treasure hunter ought to be as certain as he can about each discovery, to know what he has truly found - before making too many conclusions.

Think of how you would present your case as if it were in a "court-room" - for in effect you will be presenting it to the "court" of Public Opinion - and there will be many questions similar to what I and others have already asked you. People will want to see the proof in the pudding, and historians will insist on very good proof.
Oroblanco

then i must be wrong because everyone beleives that tayopa is in mexico ,, so there is no reason for me to go back and find out what is at site 4 .. it can rot for another 500 years , the earth was said to flat by thousands of people that thaught they knew everything ...because a few told them it was ...those few were wrong ...

it dosent matter to me ... you can beleive what you want ...who cares if tayopa is made public , if i have a premit or not .. treasures vanish all the time ,. this one could be the same ....
i am done answering questions .


site 4 must be just some old rusty treasure trove waiting for mexico to move ....

you want me to drop it ...OK

 

[arkhunter]

You are claiming that you found crucifixes in the Superstitions? Or are you saying that you found rusty old nails? If I found rusty old nails, I would think it is most likely traces left behind by Dutch-hunters.

The symbol of the cross was well known in America long before the arrival of Columbus, so finding a cross symbol would not instantly mean Spaniards.

It is very easy to jump from one conclusion to another, and make a mistake. The farther one proceeds from that error, the greater the error grows. Remember -"Recognize what is in your sight, and that which is hidden from you will become plain to you . For there is nothing hidden which will not become manifest."
(Gospel of Thomas)
In researching lost treasures, a treasure hunter ought to be as certain as he can about each discovery, to know what he has truly found - before making too many conclusions.

Think of how you would present your case as if it were in a "court-room" - for in effect you will be presenting it to the "court" of Public Opinion - and there will be many questions similar to what I and others have already asked you. People will want to see the proof in the pudding, and historians will insist on very good proof.
Oroblanco

then i must be wrong because everyone beleives that tayopa is in mexico ,, so there is no reason for me to go back and find out what is at site 4 .. it can rot for another 500 years

wow...what a leap...a total lack of logic...very sad really

 

[the blindbowman]

You are claiming that you found crucifixes in the Superstitions? Or are you saying that you found rusty old nails? If I found rusty old nails, I would think it is most likely traces left behind by Dutch-hunters.

The symbol of the cross was well known in America long before the arrival of Columbus, so finding a cross symbol would not instantly mean Spaniards.

It is very easy to jump from one conclusion to another, and make a mistake. The farther one proceeds from that error, the greater the error grows. Remember -"Recognize what is in your sight, and that which is hidden from you will become plain to you . For there is nothing hidden which will not become manifest."
(Gospel of Thomas)
In researching lost treasures, a treasure hunter ought to be as certain as he can about each discovery, to know what he has truly found - before making too many conclusions.

Think of how you would present your case as if it were in a "court-room" - for in effect you will be presenting it to the "court" of Public Opinion - and there will be many questions similar to what I and others have already asked you. People will want to see the proof in the pudding, and historians will insist on very good proof.
Oroblanco

then i must be wrong because everyone beleives that tayopa is in mexico ,, so there is no reason for me to go back and find out what is at site 4 .. it can rot for another 500 years

wow...what a leap...a total lack of logic...very sad really

presonal , i said i would not put up with it again ..bye

 

[Old Dog]

Oro Wrote...quote.
"are you saying that the Cerro de las Campanas is NOT a key landmark associated with Tayopa? "

I for one would love to know what the significance is Roy,
From my grade school history I remember that The emperor Maximilian was imprisoned there and executed by Benito Juarez. (I don't have a date )

Always liked learning more about this stuff.
Thanks in advance

Thom

 

[Oroblanco]

Blindbowman wrote:

then i must be wrong because everyone beleives that tayopa is in mexico ,, so there is no reason for me to go back and find out what is at site 4 .. it can rot for another 500 years

Blindbowman mi amigo now why do you say that? Just because Oroblanco is not YET convinced of what you found?

Arkhunter wrote:

wow...what a leap

I have to agree with you amigo - I think Blindbowman is getting discouraged by my questions, which should not have that effect. I am only asking because I would like to believe!

I don't mean to be a "wet blanket" all the time amigos - I am asking you to convince me. If that is asking too much, I will be happy to drop it. I really do hope you will make your expeditions and show the world your discoveries. Besides, everyone believed Troy was a myth, right up until Schliemann proved it was real!

Old Dog wrote:
(relating to the Cerro de las Campanas )

I for one would love to know what the significance is Roy,

Well the story goes that if you stand on this mesa or hill, on a certain date - at sunset the Sun is setting directly over the site of Tayopa. I can't recall the date you are to stand on the mesa. The bell-maker here is supposed to be the man who made the Tayopa bells, only one of which (I know of) to ever be found. I believe that our mutual amigo Real de Tayopa said that he knows of a second one?

Oroblanco

 

[Oroblanco]

Blindbowman wrote:

presonal , i said i would not put up with it again ..bye

What? What did I post that was a personal attack amigo? I will gladly remove or edit the offending statement(s) and want you to know that nothing was intended to be a personal attack. My apologies for whatever it was!
Oroblanco

 

[Old Dog]

Blindbowman wrote:

presonal , i said i would not put up with it again ..bye

What? What did I post that was a personal attack amigo? I will gladly remove or edit the offending statement(s) and want you to know that nothing was intended to be a personal attack. My apologies for whatever it was!
Oroblanco

I don't think you said anything that was an affront of any kind Roy.
And thanks for the tidbit that is cool to know.
I just think that any questions that are unanswerable are the construed attack.

if we insist on "true" facts and they can't be provided after all the dancing around
and the facts are still insisted on .... It must be an attack.

Thom

 

[arkhunter]

i think he means me.......but i see no reason to take back a simple statement of fact

 

[Oroblanco]

PS - Blindbowman, I am just ONE GUY. You don't HAVE to prove it to me. Besides, don't you think you would like to read Real de Tayopa's replies?

Thom I sure hope I didn't say something offensive - I have plenty of enemies already and don't need to lose any friends! That clue about the Cerro de las Campanas is the one that I always had the most problems with, since there are several different ancient mines such as the Dios Padres that the owners claim are Tayopa, yet none (except ONE - that owned by our mutual amigo Real de Tayopa) will fit with that clue. Jose' finally let me know the reason why we have this rather peculiar problem, it is because several different places were named Tayopa over the centuries. If not for this fact, I would have dismissed the claim of our amigo Blindbowman offhand - but we know that the name was used for several different places....so it IS possible, but I want (or hoped) to see some proof that will "lock" it for me.

Arkhunter wrote:

i think he means me <snip>

I don't think so amigo, I did not see anything that sounds like a personal attack in your posts. In fact didn't you say,

wow...what a leap...a total lack of logic...very sad really

That does not sound like any kind of insult to me - if it were, why would you have said it was "sad" that he was willing to let his discoveries "rot" for "another 500 years"? Did I miss something there?

Maybe I am just not reading the posts the way Blindbowman is taking them? Blindbowman if you are still active, I hope that you are not just having a bad day or something - I know that sometimes I take things 'the wrong way' if my day has been in the old crapper all day long. What was said that hit you, amigo Blindbowman, as some kind of personal attack? I am pretty sure no attack was intended.

One last bit on personal attacks - I don't care for "flame wars" as happens on forums all too often. I am pretty sure that if Arkhunter, myself or any other of your amigos here had intended a personal attack on you Blindbowman, there would be no doubt about it. The moderators would then likely intercede and posts would get removed, and in really bad cases a member or two would get banned temporarily or permanently. So mi amigo Blindbowman, take it easy pal you are among friends here, friends who have been enjoying the discussion.

Good luck and good hunting to you all my friends, I hope that you find the treasures that you seek.
your friend,
Oroblanco

 

[Jeffro]

BB-

How many lost mine legends have you found so far?

 

[Old Dog]

I saw no personal attacks from you either.
Ark,

I am going to be a bit more unrelenting when insisting on facts where BB is concerned.
I can't see all the legends of any treasure centering in the Supers from the origins of the Aztec, Atlantis,
The lost cities of Cibola and keep the list going.... add nausium.

I'm actually surprised that Victorio peak isn't in some way a renaming of Weavers Needle.

Just because you ended a sentence with ...Fact. Doesn't make it true.
there is no attack in insisting that the so called fact be reinforced with actual facts and pictures
The real deal Not a fuzzy half partial out of focus thing that shows only an inability to operate a camera.
A couple good pictures of a site won't hurt anything.
and most of us aren't even interested in chasing down what he speaks of,
we just want to see the proof of the statements he makes,

which will never happen as he has none.
Thom

 

[Oroblanco]

HOLA mi amigo Thom and everyone,

Old Dog wrote:

we just want to see the proof of the statements he makes,

which will never happen as he has none.

Thom you have summed it up in a nutshell. I tend to think that our friend Blindbowman has found SOMETHING that sure has led him (and by proxy, us too) down many different theories/roads, just that I simply don't know what it is - and perhaps he is not sure either. If you think about the many different theories Blindbowman has presented here on T-net over time, doesn't it strike you as if he is trying to "fit" some historical event and historical people to what he has found? That is the impression I keep getting, for he has mentioned some interesting tidbits, like the rusty nails, broken pottery shards, signs of irrigation, fruit trees, something he sees as a "church" and something else he sees as a "vault" - so he has tried out various ideas with the intention of making a fit. If I had found such things as he has mentioned, I would be puzzled and casting around to try to explain them too.

Unfortunately (for me anyway) each time Blindbowman has settled upon a theory that he is applying to what he has found, he makes statements like, it IS Tayopa, or it IS Aztlan, and that various possibilities are not possibles but FACTS. I would probably phrase a theory a little differently, instead of saying that it IS Tayopa for example I would sooner say that I believe it could be Tayopa - but Blindbowman does not phrase his statements in less than absolute statements. I think that is just his way of saying things.

I don't understand why Blindbowman would say he would let it rot for 500 years simply because someone (like me specifically) is not convinced by his statements or photos. Perhaps Blindbowman is just having a bad day and I asked way too many questions.

I would like to read the replies from our amigo Real de Tayopa on this too, so I hope that Blindbowman has changed his mind about leaving.

Good luck and good hunting to you Thom and everyone here, I hope that you find the treasures that you seek.
your friend,
Roy ~ Oroblanco

 

[Jeffro]

He'll be back, no worries.

There is another possiblity Oro- Maybe these posts are just his way of fishing? I find it hard to believe that one man could seriously believe he has found as many lost mines as BB.

To each his own. I'm not stating this as good or bad, just indifferent. Every person has their own way of going about things.