Knobs or screen?

[Cally]

Hi, I'm looking at Tesoro's Cibola and one of the White's prizum models on line.

Not having any experience with detectors I am wondering what is the difference in these two types of designs? What type works for you?

To me the Tesoro seems more appealing with it's knobs and older look but hey I'm 51.

The Detector will be for my son who will relic and coin hunt. Thanks Cally

 

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[U.K. Brian]

I would rather pay for depth than for probability (or possibility) I.D. for depth/target I.D. So that means the Tesoro if the Cibola works O.K. in your area. I would try and stretch a little bit more to the Vaquero (or Trident 2 if your in Europe) for the flexibility of manual ground balance if you can.
Either Tesoro would be a good starting point and will train you to listen to the audio of different targets. Excellent depth and iron identification so I doubt if you/your son will be wanting another machine a few months down the line. Great warranty in the States.
The Prizm will allow cherry picking down the park but... it just does not cope with the varying mineralisation in my area and might not where you are. It would be handy to find out what local local detecting club use.

 

[Willy]

Why not look at the Garrett Ace250? I don't have one, but it's been getting rave reviews from a lot of people, many of them grizzled TH'ing veterans. It's also cheap & (so I've read) fun to use. Actually, I'd recommend buying a used unit from one of the various classified forums. You'll get twice the detector for half the price. That's what I've done & I've been able to buy some great detectors that I would not have been able to afford otherwise. ...Willy.

 

[neilo]

The ace 250 lacks depth if you want to hunt for relics you should be looking for a deeper seeking model whether it is knobs or screens you usually find the accuracy of targets on screens deteriarates with depth. you are better off getting a machine with a good tone id system as these a far more accurate at depth.Look at a Minelab Sovereign excellent depth and has good target tone id. Neilo

 

[Michigan Badger]

I used to think the best buy in detectordom was the Ace 250 but now after chatting with THers from all over the world I'd say Tesoro's Cibola is the supreme deal. It's way more machine than the 250 but it does cost about $140 more. The price difference is more than justified.

The higher model Tesoros do go deeper only because they can be tuned to be more sensitive. See, this is how all SUPER DEEP detectors achieve extreme depth. They can be tuned to extreme sensitivity to the slightest detectable signal. However, the problem is super sensitive signals can be false signals (usually are) and can be difficult to pinpoint or even hear in the first place.

In probably 95% of situations the Cibola (or similar systems) will be fine. In some rare situations where hunting is slow and extremely deep, the ultra sensitive machines could be an edge.

Everybody today seems to think the really good stuff is always deepest. To date, the really good stuff I've found here in the US was less than 6 inches deep and they nearly blew my ears off.

But remember---ultra sensitive means lots of study and experience. I once owned a Minelab so I know all about this.

 

[Cally]

Thanks to each one who has replied to me. I really appriciate it!
In my area I 'm not sure if the soil is mineral rich but the area has iron in the hills and drinking water can be iron tasting. This area of NJ was an iron mining area in days gone by. I have been advised that a machine with adjustable ground balance may be the best bet but again I'm not sure if iron in the hills means iron in the soil. I was considering the Tesoro Vaquero even though it is a lot more than I wanted to spend. Cally

 

[Michigan Badger]

I never have paid too much attention to ground balancing and all that. Maybe I should have

When I test a machine I do this:

1) air test - It has been my experience that if a machine doesn't air test well it probably won't ground test well either.

2) test garden - just go out, bury some test targets and see how a machine does.

3) hunt a familiar location first - If a new machine is doing its job I'll know fast when I check known hunting locations. I know what's there already (scrap aluminum, copper, lots of rusty nails, ammo cartrages, etc.), and how deep it all is.

4) then if it passes the test (they always do) I move on to new territories.

Now I could be wrong about this, but, to me the real difference between the adjustable ground setting machines and those with factory presets is cost. In the field in real-life hunting situations I do better with the preset machines.

When I hunt it's often raining, windy, general bad weather, I have muddy fingers and the control box is covered with a plastic bag. And, on top of all this, my time is limited. I want to get in, hunt, and get out. I don't have time to play with screens and other toys. I'm a treasure hunter.?

But don't let me change your mind--go with the adjustable ground balance machines because maybe the others are right. I posted this mainly for those who already own a preset machine. I don't want them to get discouraged. That's what I use and I do okay.? 8)

 

[Willy]

Actually, you do lose out by having a preset ground balance. Depth is lost (maybe an inch, maybe more) as well as sensitivity. This lack of sensitivity becomes more apparent when searching for deep/small stuff. Believe me, I know 'cause I prospect for gold and two things that are very important are depth & sensitivity. Using the same methods for coin hunting that I use prospecting, I'll hunt behind others & pick up tons of goodies. I'd watch out re. the Cibola/Vaquero/Tejon because they might not perform as well in highly mineralized ground due to the frequency, filters, and lack of ground tracking. The ground tracking becomes more important as the variability in ground composition increases. If you want maximum depth and incredible sensitivity, go for a Treasure Baron. I've got a Cobra II ( Kellyco rebrand of a TB) which I've modified to include 20 turn GB, V.sat, threshold, dual AM, and it can pick up a 1 grain "nugget" of gold (probably smaller but I don't have a smaller one & I won't cut a piece off my 1 oz one) while, at the same time, matching a Sov./Excalibur for depth.. regardless of coil (had the 7.5", 10", and WOT). This is in my ground, so all the Minelab flunkies can forgo spewing their particular brand of vitriol until they've hunted the same ground. I'd put my Cobra II up against the Cibola/Vaquero any day and not worry about being beaten for depth or sensitivity. I'd also have a variable notch & 2 tone ID to play around with. Wait till you've hunted a patch with a couple of hundred .22 shells buried before decrying a notch function. Hunting with a conventional disc. then becomes a nightmare if you're still looking for the low conductors. ...Willy.

 

[Michigan Badger]

I think the depth/sensitivity need varies from place to place and user to user. Most Tesoros can detect a silver quarter sized target at 10+ inches in most soils with no problem.

Here in the US that will cover most coin/relic hunting situations and coins and relics are what most of us are after.

However, hunting plowed fields in the UK for ancient coins or gold nuggets in Alaska is another matter.

If a person is able and willing to constantly properily ground balance a manual machine then it probably would be an advantage. You could maybe go another inch or so.

I've used manual ground balance machines but I never actually tested them against the presets. I mainly go by finds. If I'm finding the old stuff, I'm happy.

 

[Willy]

The difference between a preset and manual GB detector can be negligible if the ground is mineralized to a point that gets near ferrite. I've had a number of Tesoros over the years & the ones I liked the most were a Golden uMax & Toltec II. A lot of times people get caught up in the add hype, thinking that nothing beats the newest & best. Well, I could reach real deep with almost any detector I've had.. as long as it had a manual GB & threshold control. It's also one of my little hobbies to compare different detectors to see what's B.S. and what's not. ..Willy.

 

[U.K. Brian]

Hate to do it but I'm agreeing with Willy again. Perhaps its because I've got a modified Treasure Baron too. Read a report Garrett 250 v Lobo and CZ 5 last week with the Garrett only being able to reach half the depth of the more expensive machines on several different targets. Which you would expect really for the extra cost. I borrowed a 250 took it out to the test bed and added a few other machines from XP's (fairly expensive) to low end detectors with ground balance, and the 250 and a Prizm III were not really worth switching on if their 'features' were used.
Needless to say the forum I posted on managed to delete the post (and those that agreed) within a few hours.
The original post had been with regard to deep hunting and relics in 'poor' ground. I suggested that ground balance was a must and why not go the second hand route but the considered opinion was to go with a 250 and spend the balance of the money on a large coil. Many of the forums now seem fixated with 'new is best' and with filling the needs of the couple of hours a month detectorist who does not want to dig any rubbish or low value coins. What should have happened was an evolving and improvement of the best of the older models.
So as not just to take a pop at Garrett, consider the X-Terra. Not bad but whats going to be the cost of the new coil to bring in the higher frequency ? Minelab are most known for getting different frequency performance out of a single coil....my old Compass Challenger offered a choice of frequency without need for a coil change. Add the cost of the coil and the Minelab no longer looks cheap.
Then Whites. What was gained by the slight frequency change of the Prizm except from cutting the new owner off from the huge range of both Whites and third party coils ? Good for the bottom line but in the customers interest ?

 

[Michigan Badger]

Hate to do it but I'm agreeing with Willy again.

LOL!? Poor Willy.

I'll have to get another ajustable GB machine and test it side-by-side. I never thought of doing this before so it's high time.

Thanks for the info.

Also, I guess I'm all alone in this one too but, I'm not really all that fond of Mnelabs. It seems that everyone is praising them to high heaven these days.? I never owned the Ex II but I did have the Excalibur 1000. It was at best so-so. I hated the slow recovery and jumping around on signals. I dug many "junk" signals only to discover they were Indian cents. And the pinpointing stunk with the 10 inch coil.

 

[Willy]

Hey Brian, do you have that test posted anywhere that I could access? Would really like to see your results & methodology. In regards to Minelab detectors, I've had 3 of the BBS units & found them sadly lacking in my ground (& in parts of Az which I hunted) so they were sold. ...Willy.

 

[Cally]

Well Gentilemen, I ordered the Tesaro Vaquero. I believe I mentioned it's a gift for my son but I don't think I'm to far behind in getting my own. I'm always the last guy who will look for someone's contact lens until it's found so I think I'm a natural hunter. The ground is covered with snow in north Jersey with some more on the way tonight so I will have some time to think about getting something that may compliment my son's new Vaquero. Thanks again for your thoughts and have a merry Christmas and a happy new year. Cally

 

[Michigan Badger]

Well Gentilemen,? I ordered the Tesaro Vaquero.? I believe I mentioned it's a gift for my son but I don't think I'm to far behind in getting my own. I'm always the last guy who will look for someone's contact lens until it's found so I think I'm a natural hunter.? The ground is covered with snow in north Jersey with some more on the way tonight so I will have some time to think about getting something that may compliment my son's new Vaquero.? Thanks again for your thoughts and have a merry Christmas and a happy new year.? Cally

I'm sure he'll really like the Vaquero. It's only about $80 more than the Cibola anyway.

I've spent a lot of time reading on the Cibola and about the only real complaint I've heard on the machine was the buyer was sorry he didn't get one sooner. I'm sure the Vaquero is as good or even better.

I know I'm for Tesoro from now on.

Zeb

 

[stoney56]

The one thing I like about knob mach. over touchpads is the ability to thumb discriminate. I run a 1236X2 and with iron nulled it allows for non-ferrus metals to be detected. When I get a signal, the disc knob is right next to the thumb and as I swing back and forth, I can roll the knob with the side of my thumb and see where the signal breaks. That way I can get an idea before I dig what it is, although I'll dig any non-ferrus signals anyway.

 

[gregl01]

Hey UK Brian, do you have a copy of that report you could post? I have an ACE250 and am looking into a Cibola. My ground is very neutral so manual GB isn't an issue but depth sure is!!!! Let us know!!!
Thanks
Greg

 

[Michigan Badger]

Hey UK Brian, do you have a copy of that report you could post? I have an ACE250 and am looking into a Cibola. My ground is very neutral so manual GB isn't an issue but depth sure is!!!! Let us know!!!
Thanks
Greg

I was reading on another forum that if you don't set that manual ground balance correctly you'll get far worse depth than with a preset GB machine.

And too, with an ajustable machine you're constantly checking the GB. There's a reason other than cost why they make preset GB machines.

 

[Willy]

Actually, you'd have to be pretty badly misadjusted to degrade the performance by a really significant amount. Often a preset detector is balanced to ferrite, which is hotter than basically any ground out there. This makes it generally quite far out of adjustment re. the ground, with the corresponding loss of depth/sensitivity. George Payne (who basically invented motion disc.) wrote an article on the subject of preset vs. adjustable GB & the tradeoffs involved. ..Willy.