Enough with the single frequency vlf machines. - Page 2
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Thread: Enough with the single frequency vlf machines.

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  1. #16
    Charter Member
    us
    Nov 2012
    Maryland
    XP Deus, Tesoro Cibola, Full sized shovel and a backhoe
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    I guess I'm a dinosaur. I have a turn and go machine and a high end machine. Both dig stuff. Lots of stuff. I don't have to waste time on trash targets. I have lots of gold. And silver, and Civil War and Rev War and on and on, ad nauseum. I really have no clue on earth HOW either machine works, the "dumb" one or the "smart" one, except for the basics. I put each on "idiot" mode, me being the idiot and find good stuff.

    I also watch other people detect. Some I go right behind and scoop up the good stuff. I'll never figure out the math on the machines, but I get my share. I have read a lot of the books, the manuals, the posts, the arguments, etc. I don't think it's the machine so much as the user. My one $5k coin was found with a $329.00 machine a few years ago. My other best finds were with a 1980's Tesoro.

    Now if there were a true shift in technology, and I don't mean switching or multi frequencies or VDI's, THEN you would see a major difference in the take at "hunted out" places. I wonder out loud if anyone is looking outside of the box for that next step? Case in point: I remember the first "TV" dinners. In less than 30 minutes or so you could have your whole aluminum wrapped tv dinner out of the oven and ready to go. Then came the microwave, and it's down to a few minutes, tops,and no aluminum. Yes, I'm that old.

    The minesweepers of WWII started all this. We've come a long way. Who is thinking out of the box?
    G.A.P.metal and Ironfeathers like this.

  2. #17
    us
    Aug 2016
    Middleburgh, NY
    Whites: Spectra V3i, MX Sport, Bullseye TRX. Fisher: F75 LTD, 1280-X, F2. XP: Deus. Minelab: X-terra 70, Garrett: AT Pro, Ace 250, Propointer II. Tesoro: Compadre. Bounty Hunter: LRP, QDP, 3300, 2200,
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    I think you'd see leaps and bounds like that if there were as much money in this sector as there is in smartphones etc., but I don't think we'd want to see the hobby become that popular either. I do think that many companies, and Whites in particular is being very stubborn and it is holding them back. After the recent releases of the MX Sport and the MX7 and seeing the reaction in the forums I asked them "why the continued focus on single frequency VLF when you have machines like the Equinox coming and multifrequency being so much in demand?" Their answer is that there will always be a market for lower priced single frequency VLF machines. I don't agree. I think that eventually multifrequency and multiple frequency machines will become more and more mainstream and streamlined. There may continue to be some specialty exceptions, like gold machines, but other than that, continue to devote precious resources to the development of new single frequency models at your own peril. There may always be a market for it, much like there will always be a market for a Harbor Freight 9-function, but that's not where the money will be a couple years from now.

  3. #18
    us
    Jan 2007
    Gold Canyon AZ
    ML SDC-2300, Fisher F-75, XP Deus,
    726
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    Cipher,

    Our real problem with getting detector makers to design ever more advanced top-end machines is that you have the “where the money is” issue a bit backwards. The money, in fact is at the medium and low end. Sure they sell for less per unit, but they sell in VASTLY greater numbers. None of them release numbers to support my opinion, but I have some few privately acquired data points which convince me it is correct.

    Just look at Minelab, they just brought out not only the Equinox at a shockingly low price, but to support my belief about the overall market, they have re-launched their Go-Find series. This is their attempt to penetrate the mass-merchandiser market - the Big-5, Cabelas, Walmart, etc. This is where thousands of units per month are sold.

  4. #19
    us
    Aug 2016
    Middleburgh, NY
    Whites: Spectra V3i, MX Sport, Bullseye TRX. Fisher: F75 LTD, 1280-X, F2. XP: Deus. Minelab: X-terra 70, Garrett: AT Pro, Ace 250, Propointer II. Tesoro: Compadre. Bounty Hunter: LRP, QDP, 3300, 2200,
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    I totally get that, and I think the large volume of the low to mid range machines is what has allowed a company like First Texas to grow its capital and reinvest. What I'm getting at is that in the near future those single frequency low to mid range machines are going to be less and less desirable and valuable as a company like Minelab continues to pack more into a single machine. Once you get past the R and D on multiple and multifrequency machines and they become more streamlined that's what everyone is going to want and what FT, Garrett, Whites et. al. Will have to compete with. For example, VDI numbers used to be a perk only found on higher end machinery. Soon it spread to mid range, and now even low end machines have it. I see it becoming another feature that will grow into an industry standard. I could be wrong, but my feel from the forums is the desire for multiple and multifrequency is growing.

  5. #20
    us
    Aug 2009
    White's MXT all pro, MXT300 D2, 950, 4X6 DD, detech ultimate 13" DD coils
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    Nothing wrong with single frequency detectors if your not doing wet salt water sand, my MXT will hit targets every bit as deep as the V3i. It is nice to have the ability to switch frequency if you encounter bad EMI though. HH

  6. #21
    us
    Aug 2016
    Middleburgh, NY
    Whites: Spectra V3i, MX Sport, Bullseye TRX. Fisher: F75 LTD, 1280-X, F2. XP: Deus. Minelab: X-terra 70, Garrett: AT Pro, Ace 250, Propointer II. Tesoro: Compadre. Bounty Hunter: LRP, QDP, 3300, 2200,
    164
    180 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting

    Enough with the single frequency vlf machines.

    The advantage of multifrequency in milder soil conditions is not as prominent, but those advantages aren't limited to saltwater and harsh conditions. A multifrequency machine provides a more accurate and stable ID at depth. Conversely, they provide for better and more accurate discrimination at depth. The depth advantage that single frequency machines used to provide in milder soil is being erased as companies like Minelab have figured out clever automated sequence algorithms to use the time domain in a pulse like manner. For most of us, I have to believe that accurate ID and discrimination is as important or more important than depth or we'd all be running PI machines these days.
    Last edited by ☠ Cipher; Feb 14, 2018 at 04:44 PM.

  7. #22
    Charter Member
    us
    Nov 2012
    Maryland
    XP Deus, Tesoro Cibola, Full sized shovel and a backhoe
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    A few years back I got tired digging cannonballs over two and a half feet deep with my 1986 dinosaur. I'd dig the stupid holes, have to enlarge them, then couldn't reach that far. Had a heck of a time recovering them. It's not the machine, it's the operator.

  8. #23
    us
    Silver Fiend

    Oct 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by smokeythecat View Post
    A few years back I got tired digging cannonballs over two and a half feet deep with my 1986 dinosaur. I'd dig the stupid holes, have to enlarge them, then couldn't reach that far. Had a heck of a time recovering them. It's not the machine, it's the operator.
    You cant compare a cannonball to a coin. I can dig a beer can at two feet... I dont even want to think how deep I might have to dig for something as massive as a cannonball.
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  9. #24
    Charter Member
    us
    Nov 2012
    Maryland
    XP Deus, Tesoro Cibola, Full sized shovel and a backhoe
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    I max out with coins at about 15".

  10. #25
    us
    Mar 2011
    Earth
    A couple Sovereign's, Excalibur II, Eureka Gold, Falcon MD20, TM808, Sierra Madre, 5900 DIProsl, Garrett ADS III with Bloodhound, Fisher 1280x, Equinox 800
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    Different tools for different jobs. VLF's will never be obsolete, or at least not till i'm dead.
    Never keep a paper dollar in your pocket till tomorrow


  11. #26
    us
    Silver Fiend

    Oct 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by treasuresalvor View Post
    Different tools for different jobs. VLF's will never be obsolete, or at least not till i'm dead.
    Anything that does a job better, by definition makes the previous version obsolete. That doesnt mean the old model suddenly fails to work, people seem to confuse these issues. They act as if something better means they can never use again.

    If by some chance the multi freq can be shown to outperform any single freq VLF detector, you would still refuse to use one and continue doggedly buying old technology? How is the BFO working out? How about the TR? Oh, thats right, something called the VLF motion discriminator came along and made them obsolete.
    Last edited by Jason in Enid; Feb 24, 2018 at 11:04 AM.
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  12. #27
    Charter Member
    us
    Nov 2012
    Maryland
    XP Deus, Tesoro Cibola, Full sized shovel and a backhoe
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    No vlf's will not be obsolete for a long time to come, until something much smarter than multi frequency comes out. If it does. PI's will never be obsolete, they have a different use. Everyone is different, the types of items they are looking for is different. I have seen expensive nice machines being swung 6-8" off the ground. That's not going to work out very well. I have seen people bring out a $2k machine and give up after half an hour. They didn't find anything fast enough. I've seen people almost running down a beach with a machine thinking they are detecting. I've been with people in my group (yes we were out together) rely on the VDI and cherry pick a site and miss the $1k Confederate cuff button they just walked over. Not a good enough signal for them. (I have it.) Note to all: never assume the digger before you got everything. One of the things I see that I shake my head at is somebody getting a mid range target, where the gold be! and use the vdi to decide whether to dig or not, that is the question. They look, look, switch a setting, move sideways, they take a full minute to figure out if they want to dig it. In the meantime, I have dug 4 targets and have moved on to the next and I generally smoke all the people mentioned above. And then there's the last class of MD enthusiast. They are not enthusiasts. They just like toys. They get the latest and greatest, some really never learn any one machine and most wind up sitting in the closet waiting for the newest latest and greatest.

    Bottom line, take whatever you have and find a spot and go dig.


    Multi frequency isn't really going to make much of a different unless 1) you get the thing out of the closet and invest a lot of time digging 2) get sites with stuff still in the ground and 3) slow down, don't depend on the meter so much and just dig the stuff. Make it enjoyable, relax. Have fun. It's supposed to be a fun hobby not a my machine is better than your machine. I have found my most expensive items with a $329 no meter at all machine. It's the chase, not the having.
    Texasgopher and Juiceman like this.

  13. #28
    us
    Silver Fiend

    Oct 2009
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    Minelab is convinced after all testing and development of the Equinox that they are ceaseing all VLF production. Why keep making something that is inferior?

    No, its not all about the chase. Without the "having" their is no point of the chase. I want the equipment to give me the most "having" as possible.
    Timebandit likes this.
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  14. #29
    Charter Member
    us
    Nov 2012
    Maryland
    XP Deus, Tesoro Cibola, Full sized shovel and a backhoe
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    Jason in Enid, my Tesoro and My Deus nailed a site yesterday. I'm putting up some stuff. There are not multi frequency machines and the Tesoro doesn't have a meter. I like the chase, and I get.
    Timecop67 likes this.

  15. #30
    us
    Mar 2011
    Earth
    A couple Sovereign's, Excalibur II, Eureka Gold, Falcon MD20, TM808, Sierra Madre, 5900 DIProsl, Garrett ADS III with Bloodhound, Fisher 1280x, Equinox 800
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    I have multi frequency machines and no, I don't refuse to use them but there are many times I choose not to because single frequency is the better choice for one reason or another. If they ever come out with a multi frequency machine that is better at everything than any VLF, you bet I'll only use it but as of right now that hasn't happened. Just because you don't personally have a use for a BFO makes it obsolete to you but not to me, If I want to scan walls that's my first choice. Every park hunter on Earth got their panties in a twist when Minelab introduced the Equinox and they sell a ton of them, It was the same with the Etrac and CTX. They build what the market wants and the market is park/beach hunters. I'm neither.
    Timecop67 likes this.
    Never keep a paper dollar in your pocket till tomorrow


 

 
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