Enough with the single frequency vlf machines.

[☠ Cipher]

The advantage of multifrequency in milder soil conditions is not as prominent, but those advantages aren't limited to saltwater and harsh conditions. A multifrequency machine provides a more accurate and stable ID at depth. Conversely, they provide for better and more accurate discrimination at depth. The depth advantage that single frequency machines used to provide in milder soil is being erased as companies like Minelab have figured out clever automated sequence algorithms to use the time domain in a pulse like manner. For most of us, I have to believe that accurate ID and discrimination is as important or more important than depth or we'd all be running PI machines these days.

 

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[smokeythecat]

A few years back I got tired digging cannonballs over two and a half feet deep with my 1986 dinosaur. I'd dig the stupid holes, have to enlarge them, then couldn't reach that far. Had a heck of a time recovering them. It's not the machine, it's the operator.

 

[Jason in Enid]

A few years back I got tired digging cannonballs over two and a half feet deep with my 1986 dinosaur. I'd dig the stupid holes, have to enlarge them, then couldn't reach that far. Had a heck of a time recovering them. It's not the machine, it's the operator.

You cant compare a cannonball to a coin. I can dig a beer can at two feet... I dont even want to think how deep I might have to dig for something as massive as a cannonball.

 

[smokeythecat]

I max out with coins at about 15".

 

[treasuresalvor]

Different tools for different jobs. VLF's will never be obsolete, or at least not till i'm dead.

 

[Jason in Enid]

Different tools for different jobs. VLF's will never be obsolete, or at least not till i'm dead.

Anything that does a job better, by definition makes the previous version obsolete. That doesnt mean the old model suddenly fails to work, people seem to confuse these issues. They act as if something better means they can never use again.

If by some chance the multi freq can be shown to outperform any single freq VLF detector, you would still refuse to use one and continue doggedly buying old technology? How is the BFO working out? How about the TR? Oh, thats right, something called the VLF motion discriminator came along and made them obsolete.

 

[smokeythecat]

No vlf's will not be obsolete for a long time to come, until something much smarter than multi frequency comes out. If it does. PI's will never be obsolete, they have a different use. Everyone is different, the types of items they are looking for is different. I have seen expensive nice machines being swung 6-8" off the ground. That's not going to work out very well. I have seen people bring out a $2k machine and give up after half an hour. They didn't find anything fast enough. I've seen people almost running down a beach with a machine thinking they are detecting. I've been with people in my group (yes we were out together) rely on the VDI and cherry pick a site and miss the $1k Confederate cuff button they just walked over. Not a good enough signal for them. (I have it.) Note to all: never assume the digger before you got everything. One of the things I see that I shake my head at is somebody getting a mid range target, where the gold be! and use the vdi to decide whether to dig or not, that is the question. They look, look, switch a setting, move sideways, they take a full minute to figure out if they want to dig it. In the meantime, I have dug 4 targets and have moved on to the next and I generally smoke all the people mentioned above. And then there's the last class of MD enthusiast. They are not enthusiasts. They just like toys. They get the latest and greatest, some really never learn any one machine and most wind up sitting in the closet waiting for the newest latest and greatest.

Bottom line, take whatever you have and find a spot and go dig.


Multi frequency isn't really going to make much of a different unless 1) you get the thing out of the closet and invest a lot of time digging 2) get sites with stuff still in the ground and 3) slow down, don't depend on the meter so much and just dig the stuff. Make it enjoyable, relax. Have fun. It's supposed to be a fun hobby not a my machine is better than your machine. I have found my most expensive items with a $329 no meter at all machine. It's the chase, not the having.

 

[Jason in Enid]

Minelab is convinced after all testing and development of the Equinox that they are ceaseing all VLF production. Why keep making something that is inferior?

No, its not all about the chase. Without the "having" their is no point of the chase. I want the equipment to give me the most "having" as possible.

 

[smokeythecat]

Jason in Enid, my Tesoro and My Deus nailed a site yesterday. I'm putting up some stuff. There are not multi frequency machines and the Tesoro doesn't have a meter. I like the chase, and I get.

 

[treasuresalvor]

I have multi frequency machines and no, I don't refuse to use them but there are many times I choose not to because single frequency is the better choice for one reason or another. If they ever come out with a multi frequency machine that is better at everything than any VLF, you bet I'll only use it but as of right now that hasn't happened. Just because you don't personally have a use for a BFO makes it obsolete to you but not to me, If I want to scan walls that's my first choice. Every park hunter on Earth got their panties in a twist when Minelab introduced the Equinox and they sell a ton of them, It was the same with the Etrac and CTX. They build what the market wants and the market is park/beach hunters. I'm neither.

 

[smokeythecat]

I have multi frequency machines and no, I don't refuse to use them but there are many times I choose not to because single frequency is the better choice for one reason or another. If they ever come out with a multi frequency machine that is better at everything than any VLF, you bet I'll only use it but as of right now that hasn't happened. Just because you don't personally have a use for a BFO makes it obsolete to you but not to me, If I want to scan walls that's my first choice. Every park hunter on Earth got their panties in a twist when Minelab introduced the Equinox and they sell a ton of them, It was the same with the Etrac and CTX. They build what the market wants and the market is park/beach hunters. I'm neither.

Equinox will do very well. No doubt about that. I do not do parks or in the water, so I have no use for one at this time. The city parks around here are good places to get killed and I'm not going there. I don't need to. I have a lot of private permissions. I'm nailing it right now with my other machines. One is a turn and go! The operator, as usual will be key to finding or not finding, and there has to be something in the ground to begin with. That's why we chase the stuff so much. If it's not there you won't find it.

When I found my Confederate plate in the early winter, a BFO machine would have found it! It was a softball target, no one had ever dug there before.

 

[littlehugger]

the garrett ground hog my father used in 1979 has 3 and 15 freq ... it was one at a time but still had 2 freq to choose from

Fishers old legendary CZ line had dual frequencies, and was splashproof too. Way ahead of their time.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

The Equinox gives us Multi-IQ which is superior to both BBS and FBS and also the option of single freq, best of both worlds. I am betting we are going to see more ML detectors in the future with Multi-IQ, would not be surprised to see a CTX 3030 II using Multi-IQ in future.

 

[rogueaviation]

I'm glad I'm not the only one need that likes listening to the ground a bit and enjoys the knobs and switches being physical entities.

I suppose one of these days, those things will all go away, but for now, I love the MXT and it's ability to show me on a half second exactly where all the settings are set.

 

[glabelle]

There is a lot to be said for simplicity. I have other hobbies, so go in long streaks without detecting. You can turn on an MXT and get going after a long absence, without having to poor over a manual again and go through menus, sub-menus, advanced settings, etc. And, like you say, one glance at the detector box and you know how it is setup.

Besides all of that, the MXT is nearly as good as any other machine available, outside of waterproof or pulse.

 

[wingmaster]

There is a lot to be said for simplicity. I have other hobbies, so go in long streaks without detecting. You can turn on an MXT and get going after a long absence, without having to poor over a manual again and go through menus, sub-menus, advanced settings, etc. And, like you say, one glance at the detector box and you know how it is setup.

Besides all of that, the MXT is nearly as good as any other machine available, outside of waterproof or pulse.

The MXT will get as deep as any detector out now with the right coil and possibly the best ground tracking out there, very fast recovery rate to pick through the trash and all for less money than the high end detectors so what's not to love about the MXT. You will be better suited using a multi frequency detector for salt beaches but beyond that just give me my MXT. HH

 

[GreenMeanie]

I use to think maybe minelab had a patent stopping others from using it.
But didn't Fisher have duel freq out first in their CZ line? I cant remember if minelab had something before the CZ's.
Other companies could build on Duel freq machines I would think if they wanted to.

But if there is a answer to the NOX I hope it is a new DEUS no idea why but I hope that company does it.

 

[smokeythecat]

It all comes down to personal preference. Some people don't switch machines for years, others buy at the drop of a hat, most folks are in between. It's hobby to be enjoyed.

 

[docweiser]

Minelab does have a patent from 2009 on multi-frequency 8,159,225 - HOWEVER - it is NOT a right to ALL multi-frequency operations. They patented the idea of mixing a set of 2 frequencies of rectangular nature. Anyone familiar with electronics can tell you that there is more than one way to skin a cat in that game. I have a Minelab and a spectrum analyzer which I will test when I have a chance to show what they are doing. Now the math behind their concept is good / solid math but the same math can be applied to many types of signals and achieve the same result, they are using Fourier transforms and mixing techniques that are well documented in electronics that cover a wide variety of disciplines.

Easily copied without violating the patent just by altering the signal type and adjusting the processing accordingly. Even the underlying "concept" can be easily reproduced by other methods of waveform processing. In fact of the 34 patents for minelab there is a "key" that would render most of the 34 a painting into a corner for them

Scary thing is a search on the key yielded 666,000,000 <- EXACT - entries!

Point is - I wouldn't worry about going ahead with your idea because the chances that your multi-frequency idea would violate what they patented is minuscule and if you design "around" the key could NEVER survive a challenge in court. And at this point the key is so common I doubt it would survive anyway.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

And Minelab has the high dollar lawyers and capital to take it to court and win, as they have done in the past.