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  1. #991

    Mar 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by lesjcbs View Post
    .... Mr.Tom, your statement of the claimant having the burden of proof is correct but is irrelevant in this matter as the burden of proof has already been met, many times over....
    Les: Yours and dizzy-digger's posts brought a smile to my face. Thankyou (and I mean that sincerely) for writing all that out. You made some very good points.

    Here's an analogy: If I asserted that little green aliens were living on the top of Mt. Everest. And pointed you to a book that had "the proof" on page 82. I guess you'd have to agree with me that there ARE "little green aliens" up there, UNLESS you got the book, studied page 82, and gave me reasons why it wasn't conclusive. Eh ?

    Or ... at best .... I would have to conclude that "I don't know". Like: being an agnostic, not an atheist. Until I've read your book and shown you "more plausible explanations" to explain it away. If so, then you too would have to conclude there *might* be little green aliens on Mt. Everest, UNLESS you bought the book, and disproved it.

    I think you can see you would say "hogwash" to the little green aliens, right ? EVEN if you didn't buy the book. Right ? So too do I tend to say "hogwash" to the idea of cameras being able to see/differentiate gold.

    If something could be done in a controlled environment on sample objects (that definitely showed the different between gold, aluminum, brass, copper, etc....) then would it have any impact on the REAL world ? I mean, where/when/how could someone use that to actually go out and find anything ? Are you going to aim it at a mountain, a city garbage dump, or whatever ? Then develop the film, observe where gold is, and then walk out and pick it up ?

    I am not going to buy the book (too much of a cheapskate, and feel like you'd engage me in a game of wackamo). But I'll compromise and tell you that when the day comes where I see finds made with this method on "today's find" section, that do not have "more plausible explanations" (random chance, or using a detector to "pinpoint" in areas that were "likely areas" to begin with), then I'll believe. Yeah yah, I know, I'm a wimp for not buying and reading the book. But I have a feeling that any "more plausible explanation" I could give, would be dismissed by you.

  2. #992
    us
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom_in_CA View Post
    Les: Yours and dizzy-digger's posts brought a smile to my face. Thankyou (and I mean that sincerely) for writing all that out. You made some very good points.

    Here's an analogy: If I asserted that little green aliens were living on the top of Mt. Everest. And pointed you to a book that had "the proof" on page 82. I guess you'd have to agree with me that there ARE "little green aliens" up there, UNLESS you got the book, studied page 82, and gave me reasons why it wasn't conclusive. Eh ?

    Or ... at best .... I would have to conclude that "I don't know". Like: being an agnostic, not an atheist. Until I've read your book and shown you "more plausible explanations" to explain it away. If so, then you too would have to conclude there *might* be little green aliens on Mt. Everest, UNLESS you bought the book, and disproved it.

    I think you can see you would say "hogwash" to the little green aliens, right ? EVEN if you didn't buy the book. Right ? So too do I tend to say "hogwash" to the idea of cameras being able to see/differentiate gold.

    If something could be done in a controlled environment on sample objects (that definitely showed the different between gold, aluminum, brass, copper, etc....) then would it have any impact on the REAL world ? I mean, where/when/how could someone use that to actually go out and find anything ? Are you going to aim it at a mountain, a city garbage dump, or whatever ? Then develop the film, observe where gold is, and then walk out and pick it up ?

    I am not going to buy the book (too much of a cheapskate, and feel like you'd engage me in a game of wackamo). But I'll compromise and tell you that when the day comes where I see finds made with this method on "today's find" section, that do not have "more plausible explanations" (random chance, or using a detector to "pinpoint" in areas that were "likely areas" to begin with), then I'll believe. Yeah yah, I know, I'm a wimp for not buying and reading the book. But I have a feeling that any "more plausible explanation" I could give, would be dismissed by you.
    I too had fun with my post. It brought back memories of days gone by. No, you are not a wimp, just a skeptic of the highest order and that's OK. So see ya later.
    Tom_in_CA likes this.
    Einstein said: I know very well that many scientists consider dowsing as a type of ancient superstition. According to my conviction this is, however, unjustified. The dowsing rod is a simple instrument which shows the reaction of the human nervous system to certain factors which are unknown to us at this time.

    If dowsing does not work, the Spanish would not have used it as much as they did.

    Practice makes perfect, even in dowsing.

  3. #993
    us
    Feb 2018
    SF Bay Area, California
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    Tom, amazon has a preview of the book, I read about 10 pages. I'll concede that's not comprehensive.

    What I read says the cameras are picking up (near)IR, you should be taking pictures pointing north or south on a warm, sunny day, and that if you can't find your test target with the first image, keep taking pictures until you find your test target.

    If this is real, wouldn't it be repeatable, easily recorded with an IR camera, and show up in every picture? Seems like if you keep taking pictures of your test spot, one of these times you're going to get lense flare, or your sensor heats up, and you equate that to this phenomenon.

    I don't know why we need to buy a book, or read 67 pages of a forum to get the proof that could be shown in one post. I came late to this thread, so if there's proof in those 67 pages that I missed, please post the link. Does anyone have unedited RAW files showing this phenomenon?

    If I can get my hands on a camera without an IR cut filter, I'll try it out. I'm open to learn.
    Tom_in_CA likes this.

  4. #994

    Mar 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by FingerChili View Post
    ....if you can't find your test target with the first image, keep taking pictures until you find your test target. .... If this is real, wouldn't it be repeatable,....
    Good point finger-chili : A person trying to test or prove this, needs to guard against the psychology of "memory bias" . That's where if 10 times it fails, but 1 time it works, the human mind tends to disregard the first 10 failures (writing them off to "solar flares" or wind-blown dust particles, blah blah blah. Then on the 11th time, they get a funny glow or aura, they think "AHA ! It works !". (Conveniently forgetting , or dismissing with lame explanations, the first 10 failed tests).

    In that case it becomes random chance. But not in the eyes of the believer. To them it merely means that the 10 failed tests had other reasons to account for the failure. And they will resolve to understand the 11th time , and give only the 11th test "credibility". Ie.: they do not see the first 10 as "dry holes". This is the same psychology seen in the defense of dowsing for instance: No matter how many failures, they're not seen as "failures". They are explained away by residual gold dust, or windy day, or sun-spots, or nearby magnets, etc... Hence they do not count as "dry holes".
    Jason in Enid and FingerChili like this.

  5. #995

    Mar 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by FingerChili View Post
    .... if there's proof in those 67 pages that I missed, please post the link. Does anyone have unedited RAW files showing this phenomenon?

    If I can get my hands on a camera without an IR cut filter, I'll try it out. I'm open to learn.
    Apparently all you need to see is page 82 And when/if you do see that page, study the context to see if there wasn't/isn't "more plausible explanations" at play.

  6. #996
    Charter Member

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    I don't think I've caught such on film. But I have caught things from my surveillance cameras. I've posted this before in another thread. Most of the time it comes from one side. You be the judge.Click image for larger version. 

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  7. #997
    us
    Oct 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by Backwoodsbob View Post
    I don't think I've caught such on film. But I have caught things from my surveillance cameras. I've posted this before in another thread. Most of the time it comes from one side. You be the judge.Click image for larger version. 

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    Is that an xray of your colon?
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  8. #998
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    Not hardly, just one of many thing seen at my haunted place.

  9. #999

    Mar 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by Backwoodsbob View Post
    Not hardly, just one of many thing seen at my haunted place.
    Surely you're not serious. Why am I having mental images of the scene from Wizard of Oz, where the lion repeats over and over again: "I DO believe in spooks, I Do believe in spooks. I do I do I do I do"

  10. #1000
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom_in_CA View Post
    Surely you're not serious. Why am I having mental images of the scene from Wizard of Oz, where the lion repeats over and over again: "I DO believe in spooks, I Do believe in spooks. I do I do I do I do"
    I knew you would reply. What do you believe in Tom? When you die that's it. The electricity in your body just stops. That fact you have a mental image mean there hope for you. One day that third eye will open. Come see me Tom and May God bless you.

    Bob
    Tom_in_CA and Real of Tayopa like this.

  11. #1001
    us
    Aug 2014
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    how do i find the right filter? and would this work o a camera phone?

  12. #1002

    Mar 2007
    Salinas, CA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Backwoodsbob View Post
    ..... What do you believe in Tom?....
    Hi Bob. To answer your question: God ? = yes. Spooks ? = no. I have an md'ing friend who is in a growing fad of ghost-chasing enthusiasts. They go into old (supposedly "haunted") places, and set up super sensitive listening devices (tape recorders that can amplify the slightest mouse-peep). Then they all sit there silent as can be for an hour in the dark, in the middle of the night. They also set up all sorts of cameras that records all sorts of ultra-violet, thermal, motion, etc... Then they play back the tapes the next day. Listening for voices on their recorder. Or spotting anomolies in their videos.

    He and I have had debates that the various things they're attributing to "spooks" are nothing more than dust particles that come drifting by in front of the lense. Or a creek in the floor from someone who shifted their weight (or a breeze outside, etc...). But nneeeooohhh, anything to them (esp. if the object looks like E.T.) is a spook. Or some 3 syllable sound is ...... most certainly ... a ghost saying "hello there".

    As you can see, their imaginations have obviously gone wild. And they are failing to take into account memory bias (the million shapes that *didn't* look like E.T., or the sounds that *did* have an obvious alternative explanation.

  13. #1003
    Charter Member

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom_in_CA View Post
    Hi Bob. To answer your question: God ? = yes. Spooks ? = no. I have an md'ing friend who is in a growing fad of ghost-chasing enthusiasts. They go into old (supposedly "haunted") places, and set up super sensitive listening devices (tape recorders that can amplify the slightest mouse-peep). Then they all sit there silent as can be for an hour in the dark, in the middle of the night. They also set up all sorts of cameras that records all sorts of ultra-violet, thermal, motion, etc... Then they play back the tapes the next day. Listening for voices on their recorder. Or spotting anomolies in their videos.

    He and I have had debates that the various things they're attributing to "spooks" are nothing more than dust particles that come drifting by in front of the lense. Or a creek in the floor from someone who shifted their weight (or a breeze outside, etc...). But nneeeooohhh, anything to them (esp. if the object looks like E.T.) is a spook. Or some 3 syllable sound is ...... most certainly ... a ghost saying "hello there".

    As you can see, their imaginations have obviously gone wild. And they are failing to take into account memory bias (the million shapes that *didn't* look like E.T., or the sounds that *did* have an obvious alternative explanation.
    Tom , I was one of those who didn't believe in them. Not until I found things did they start showing themselves. The wife has a video of something that come up like he was pulling themselves out of a hole. Then walks away. She don't show it much. I've had one doing the same in a picture. You can see his face and what he is wearing. If you look at the picture of mine you can see a face. I had just cut a big tree that was on that side. Don't know if that has anything to do with it. They don't bother me now. Maybe a sign of things to come.
    God's Blessings to all.
    Bob
    Real of Tayopa likes this.

  14. #1004

    Mar 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by Backwoodsbob View Post
    ..... You can see his face and what he is wearing. s anything to do with it. They don't bother me now....
    Bob, I will challenge you: On a breezy day, Lie on your back , and stare at the passing cloud formations.. I guarantee you that if you lie there long enough, you will eventually make out the shape of a bunny. A smile face. An angel. A big dipper. Etc....

    Again, it's not to say that I don't believe in more than the "here and now". But if you point to video, camera, and tape recorder anomolies, and someone comes up with "more plausible explanations", then your whole enterprise (believing in more than the physical here and now) is going to look mighty silly. Ie.: it's not going to convince skeptics, since they will see the "more plausible explanations".

  15. #1005
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    Tom if I laid down on my back for any length of time. I will see nothing but my eyelids. Lol. Getting sleepy thinking about it.
    Tom_in_CA, elh and DizzyDigger like this.

 

 
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