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  1. #1051
    us
    Ryan

    Nov 2017
    Wisconsin
    ACE 400, ACE 300, TESORO COMPADRE
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    Metal Detecting
    I wondered why this post was constantly at the top of the "New Posts" on my feed, but never bothered to read it based on the age of the original post.
    Goodness gentleman, it seems we have stopped trying to prove the theory in the original post, and instead are just trying to prove each other right or wrong.
    I sure hope I don't offend anyone, but can't you both just agree to disagree and let a new post come across all of our feeds in the #1 spot?
    No one is actually going to win this.........

  2. #1052
    us
    Jul 2011
    Pocket dowsing L- Rods shown above. Whites Beach Comber, Bounty Hunter Sharp Shooter II, Whites TM 808, Canon 350D EOS Digital Rebel XT DSLR Camera.
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    Metal Detecting
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom_in_CA View Post
    Lesjcbs, let's look at your post, line-by-line :



    No. The "notion" is the thread's opening claim. It's the persons advancing an extraordinary claim (that cameras can be made to find gold) that bears the burden of proof. NOT the person who says "Prove it". You've heard the old addage: Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proofs. It's not on the skeptics to prove it DOESN'T work. It's on the claimants to prove it DOES work.

    Because, I remind you, even if someone knocked themselves silly trying to disprove a notion, it would never end. You would just say they're not using it right. Or need more practice. Or that moon-beams or solar sun spots must've affected the results that day. Etc.. etc... etc... In other words: No one can EVER disprove it (unless some sort of double-blind pre-agreed-upon set of specifics and standards to-the-claim were agreed to by both side at the outset. And even then I fear that ..... if the cameras failed, the excuses ("rigged/unfair tests, bad vibes", etc...) excuses would simply be rolled out.



    Really ? You've been able to replicate this in a controlled setting, such that it's beyond "other plausible explanations", and can be shown to be a repeatable phenomenon ? WONDERFUL ! Now we're talking . Ok, I'm all ears: Where's the proof ?



    Wait, I'm a little mystified. On the previous quote, it sounded like you'd gotten it mastered and proven. But now you're still in the test phase ? Hmmmm



    Lesjcbs, do you see the logical fallacy you just put forth ? Your analogy (Henry Ford) has a BIG implied implicit starting point, in order to qualify for the rest of your analogy. Namely: That it works. If it does, then yes, the Ford analogy works. Because, we all know from history, that Ford's invention worked, and you've been a fool to have not invested back then. But don't you see the logical fallacy here ? We're discussing whether this works or not. Your illustration simply ASSUMES it does. Ok, says who ? Where's the proof ?

    You are falling afoul of : " Assuming what you are trying to prove, as evidence for your proof of it". Only once you've proven your starting premise, can you invoke the Ford illustration.

    IN THE SAME WAY as if I gave you an example of someone who invested in a supposed new technology that turned out to be non-functional: The investor looses all his $$. If I gave you that illustration, you'd say: "That doesn't apply. Because this camera thing DOES work. Hence your bad-investment story is non-applicable". Right ? Thus so too is the good investment Ford story not applicable, till we've arrived at a starting premise of "this works".



    This is 100% true, assuming a starting premise. That it works. If it doesn't work, then your statement falls apart. Once again this is assuming one's own point of view as a "given", when said-point-of-view has not even been proven yet in the first place.

    I have an open mind. As long as the evidence points to "it works". For example, I could say all the same things in your last quote regarding any absurd claim (Eg.: Tennis shoe covered in peanut butter finds treasure). I GUARANTEE you that you would not "study it" . Nor would you would not be "patient and diligent". You would not "have an open mind", etc... On the contrary: You'd say "hogwash". Right ? And the burden of proof would be on me to prove otherwise. You would have no obligation to study tennis shoes, lest you get pinned with the moniker "close-minded" and "non-patient", etc...
    Tom of Ca:


    WOW,you do a great job of trying to convince others you are on the level. I now think you are not as genuine as you pretend to be. In fact,after all the noise you just put out in this post, you can not be that messed up in your thinking.


    I believe you are here for some other reason than to preach logic. What is it Tom? Do you work for a Government agency like the CIA, FBI, or IRS with the mission to find out what treasures people have found and how, and then report it to your boss for further actions against your own countrymen?
    Last edited by lesjcbs; Mar 16, 2018 at 04:47 PM.
    Einstein said: I know very well that many scientists consider dowsing as a type of ancient superstition. According to my conviction this is, however, unjustified. The dowsing rod is a simple instrument which shows the reaction of the human nervous system to certain factors which are unknown to us at this time.”

    If dowsing does not work, the Spanish would not have used it as much as they did.

    Practice makes perfect, even in dowsing.

  3. #1053
    us
    Jun 2006
    Out in the hills near wherendaheckarwe
    WHITES, MINELAB, Garrett
    4,186
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    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom_in_CA View Post
    Boogey: Dissecting your post :



    This is odd. Seems to me that you're no less "trying to prove your right". Eh ? WHICH IS TOTALLY FINE. That's the purpose of a forum, eh ? To compare pro's and con's to see which methods work Versus which methods don't. And the pros & con's thereof . The finger (of "who thinks they're right") points both ways. You're no less certain of your views. And that's perfectly fine.

    But then you turn right around and say : See the contradiction ?

    As for the "making it work 100%" : Be careful of random odds. If you take enough pictures, at enough test landscapes, and eventually get a planted gold target to emit some certain glow or color, by fiddling and distorting lenses and filters : Be aware that pictures and objects could be random odds. Ie.: eventually, sure, you can get your test gold item to glow or show up in some way different than the surrounding objects. So you think "Aha! It worked". But this is subconsious memory bias. You're forgetting all the pix where nearby copper or aluminum or wood "glowed" a funny color too. Or the repeat test of the exact same pix, where you took 2 steps to the left, and did not get the phenomenon to repeat. Don't you see how you might just be getting random odds ?

    Similar to some who points my tennis shoe treasure device at enough ruins and likely spots. Then dig enough holes (using a detector to pinpoint). And then .. let's say, you one-day find a treasure. Ok, did that mean the tennis shoe worked ? Or was digging enough holes around enough likely ruins bound to fall on the random odds ? So too would I be cautious of any individual uncanny results of someone thinking gold came out on film different. Unless it can be repeated in double-blind staged tests: It could be random odds of normal picture variances.




    Ok, let's try that out in-the-real-world. Apply your above statement to the following assertion: "unicorns" (or Godzilla, or leprechauns, or ... whatever) exist. Boogeyman has neither seen nor experienced them. Yet I'll bet you dollars to donuts that you'd say "hogwash. Those things don't exist" (barring proof to the contrary). Right ?

    Thus: Do see the logical self-implosion of the above statement, when applied to anything else ?
    Re-read the last line of 1046 it's the one after 1045.
    Here! I'll make it simple for you. Ok? I can't dumb it down any further. OK, WERE DONE HERE.
    elh likes this.
    I know it's here, just need a bigger coil!

    I think I know what my last words will be....
    "Hold my beer and watch this!"

  4. #1054

    Mar 2007
    Salinas, CA
    Explorer II, Compass 77b, Tesoro shadow X2
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    Quote Originally Posted by lesjcbs View Post
    ...Do you work for a Government agency like the CIA, FBI, or IRS with the mission to find out what treasures people have found and how,...
    Yup. You got me. I'm a government shill sent here to try to dissuade you from finding the gold. We stand around in smokey dark rooms in trenchcoats. Smoking cigarettes watching your every move on computer monitors. Sshh, don't tell anyone . Muhahaha

    Quote Originally Posted by can_slaw View Post
    ... it seems we have stopped trying to prove the theory in the original post, and instead are just trying to prove each other right or wrong.
    .........

    Well, them continuing the assertion IS the "trying to prove the original post". But if you look closely, you see no such proof, eh ? I'd love to see the proof. Sheesk, I need to find some more gold coins. And a camera to just look at the landscape, would make it *sseeooo* much easier after all.
    Last edited by Tom_in_CA; Mar 16, 2018 at 06:47 PM.

  5. #1055
    us
    Sep 2012
    Fullerton, Ca
    Minelab Extera 705
    18
    30 times
    Metal Detecting
    I've read some of this thread and since it's almost 10 years old I figured there would be a consensus one way or the other but apparently no one has produced any definitive proof that it is a viable method of finding precious metals. 10 years is a long time. How many cameras and filter combinations have been tested? How many treasures troves have been located with this method? If it's just a matter of wave lengths of natural light why has someone not just added band pass filters to a camera to only see the specific wave lengths? It either works or it doesn't. If it does Midis should be a rich man by now.
    I read an article referenced back a ways about which cameras will work. It inclued this paragraph reguarding infared photography:

    Lens Issues

    Certain lenses can produce abnormalities when shooting in IR, namely hotspots. When looking at an image, a bright, discolored ring can be seen in the middle of the photograph when it has been affected.

    Other issues can occur such as streaks over the image. These can be minimized is post-production, but are a real pain to deal with.

    Currently, there is no truly comprehensive list to show what lenses work well, and what lenses produce hotspots, but DPAnswers have produced a respectable guide on a number of popular lenses to help you see what lenses could cause you problems when shooting.

    Read the list of known affected lenses here on dpanswers.com.
    Something to think about........

  6. #1056
    us
    Ryan

    Nov 2017
    Wisconsin
    ACE 400, ACE 300, TESORO COMPADRE
    656
    648 times
    Metal Detecting
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom_in_CA View Post
    Yup. You got me. I'm a government shill sent here to try to dissuade you from finding the gold. We stand around in smokey dark rooms in trenchcoats. Smoking cigarettes watching your every move on computer monitors. Sshh, don't tell anyone . Muhahaha




    Well, them continuing the assertion IS the "trying to prove the original post". But if you look closely, you see no such proof, eh ? I've love to see the proof. Sheesk, I need to find some more gold coins. And a camera to just look at the landscape, would make it *sseeooo* much easier after all.
    This is a trap I am not interested in getting my leg caught in. I guess you guys need to get on the spandex, and jump in the ring for a good old fashioned WWE style smack down to settle this. Above that I doubt anything is ever going to convince either of you to believe the other.

  7. #1057

    Mar 2007
    Salinas, CA
    Explorer II, Compass 77b, Tesoro shadow X2
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    Quote Originally Posted by WesP View Post
    ..... but apparently no one has produced any definitive proof that it is a viable method of finding precious metals........
    Welcome to the game.

    1) It's not up to them to PROVE it works. It's up to you to prove it DOESN'T work.

    2) To even question the possibility that it works (or show more plausible explanations for anomolies they've noticed) you are hereby : Close-minded, impatient, non-diligent, etc...

    Quote Originally Posted by WesP View Post
    .....How many treasures troves have been located with this method? ......
    Fruitless question. Because, most certainly, if/when treasure-troves are found, the finders will remain mum. Only a fool would speak out and tell others. Lest he be at risk of govt. interference, claim-jumpers, thieves, and kidnappers. But rest assured, treasure troves are being found. We just can't tell you.

  8. #1058
    us
    Jul 2011
    Pocket dowsing L- Rods shown above. Whites Beach Comber, Bounty Hunter Sharp Shooter II, Whites TM 808, Canon 350D EOS Digital Rebel XT DSLR Camera.
    848
    306 times
    Metal Detecting
    Tom of Ca:

    Here is some logic for you. Five months ago on October 29, 2017 you were posting here during nights only. At that time, you claimed to have a business of your own that required you to work nights.

    Now you are on your computer posting in this forum during the day time, each day, every day. What happened? Because it was your turn, did your Government boss put you on the day shift? When will it be your turn to work the swing shift in your department?

    It is only logical you need to hide your true mission identity. But, logic says, your new posting times betrays you.

    Folks, go to page#58 of this thread and read my post #857. Then go to Tom's reply at post #859.
    Last edited by lesjcbs; Mar 16, 2018 at 08:28 PM.
    Einstein said: I know very well that many scientists consider dowsing as a type of ancient superstition. According to my conviction this is, however, unjustified. The dowsing rod is a simple instrument which shows the reaction of the human nervous system to certain factors which are unknown to us at this time.”

    If dowsing does not work, the Spanish would not have used it as much as they did.

    Practice makes perfect, even in dowsing.

  9. #1059

    Mar 2007
    Salinas, CA
    Explorer II, Compass 77b, Tesoro shadow X2
    13,667
    10047 times
    Banner Finds (4)
    Quote Originally Posted by lesjcbs View Post
    ... What happened? Because it was your turn, did your Government boss put you on the day shift? When will it be your turn to work the swing shift in your department?

    It is only logical you need to hide your true mission identity. But, logic says, your new posting times betrays you. ....
    Wow, so the time of day I post betrays me as a secret govt. shill ? Hmmm

    Yes I'm self-employed. Sometimes our work is at night, other times at day. Just varies. But wait, that's simply a ploy excuse to cover the *real* reason for the posting time discrepancies. Yup you're right: I'm secretly sent here to dissuade folks from finding the treasure rooms that we'd prefer not be discovered. You got me . Shhh, don't tell anyone

  10. #1060
    us
    Jul 2011
    Pocket dowsing L- Rods shown above. Whites Beach Comber, Bounty Hunter Sharp Shooter II, Whites TM 808, Canon 350D EOS Digital Rebel XT DSLR Camera.
    848
    306 times
    Metal Detecting
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom_in_CA View Post
    Wow, so the time of day I post betrays me as a secret govt. shill ? Hmmm

    Yes I'm self-employed. Sometimes our work is at night, other times at day. Just varies. But wait, that's simply a ploy excuse to cover the *real* reason for the posting time discrepancies. Yup you're right: I'm secretly sent here to dissuade folks from finding the treasure rooms that we'd prefer not be discovered. You got me . Shhh, don't tell anyone
    Prove your claim. After all, according to you, the burden of proof is on the claimant. Additionally, you have not denied being employed by the government.

    Your mission is not as you say "to dissuade folks from finding the treasure rooms that we'd prefer not be discovered", your mission is different. Your mission is to find out when someone recovers a very valuable treasure so the government can move in and take it from them. You do this by challenging people to post finds, no matter the method they used. The truth is, you really don't care about the method / s or technique as it was posted in the past that this technique is actually old news, but is now being done with DSLR cameras.
    Last edited by lesjcbs; Mar 16, 2018 at 11:55 PM.
    Tom_in_CA likes this.
    Einstein said: I know very well that many scientists consider dowsing as a type of ancient superstition. According to my conviction this is, however, unjustified. The dowsing rod is a simple instrument which shows the reaction of the human nervous system to certain factors which are unknown to us at this time.”

    If dowsing does not work, the Spanish would not have used it as much as they did.

    Practice makes perfect, even in dowsing.

  11. #1061

    Mar 2007
    Salinas, CA
    Explorer II, Compass 77b, Tesoro shadow X2
    13,667
    10047 times
    Banner Finds (4)
    Quote Originally Posted by lesjcbs View Post
    Prove your claim. After all, according to you, the burden of proof is on the claimant. Additionally, you have not denied being employed by the government.
    I thought it was you, making the claim, in post #1052. And I was merely confirming "yes I am". But yes: It appears you were only phrasing it in the form of a question. And my following assertion was .... yes ..... the claim that I am a govt. shill. And therefore yes: Therefore the burden of proof would be on me now . Right ?

    Which brings up the perfect illustration for purposes of this thread: Since I won't , nor can I, provide evidence that I am employed as a govt. shill, then I do not expect you to BELIEVE that I am. And thus, by corollary : So too should you not expect me to believe that cameras can be made to find gold. Unless evidence were forthcoming.

  12. #1062
    us
    Jul 2011
    Pocket dowsing L- Rods shown above. Whites Beach Comber, Bounty Hunter Sharp Shooter II, Whites TM 808, Canon 350D EOS Digital Rebel XT DSLR Camera.
    848
    306 times
    Metal Detecting
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom_in_CA View Post
    I thought it was you, making the claim, in post #1052. And I was merely confirming "yes I am". But yes: It appears you were only phrasing it in the form of a question. And my following assertion was .... yes ..... the claim that I am a govt. shill. And therefore yes: Therefore the burden of proof would be on me now . Right ?

    Which brings up the perfect illustration for purposes of this thread: Since I won't , nor can I, provide evidence that I am employed as a govt. shill, then I do not expect you to BELIEVE that I am. And thus, by corollary : So too should you not expect me to believe that cameras can be made to find gold. Unless evidence were forthcoming.
    When do you retire from Government employment?
    Tom_in_CA likes this.
    Einstein said: I know very well that many scientists consider dowsing as a type of ancient superstition. According to my conviction this is, however, unjustified. The dowsing rod is a simple instrument which shows the reaction of the human nervous system to certain factors which are unknown to us at this time.”

    If dowsing does not work, the Spanish would not have used it as much as they did.

    Practice makes perfect, even in dowsing.

  13. #1063
    us
    Sep 2012
    Fullerton, Ca
    Minelab Extera 705
    18
    30 times
    Metal Detecting
    How many people have posted of a sucessful outcome using this method? Surely in almost ten years there has been more then one or two.

  14. #1064

    Mar 2007
    Salinas, CA
    Explorer II, Compass 77b, Tesoro shadow X2
    13,667
    10047 times
    Banner Finds (4)
    Quote Originally Posted by WesP View Post
    How many people have posted of a sucessful outcome using this method? ....
    Follow along long enough, and you will see that "successful outcomes" are not the measure of whether it works, or "success". The lack-of-success (proofs) here mean absolutely nothing when it comes to the pro/con debate. They (the lack of posted successes) can all be explained away easily.

  15. #1065
    us
    Jun 2006
    Out in the hills near wherendaheckarwe
    WHITES, MINELAB, Garrett
    4,186
    2771 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Folks, This thread has been running a long time and has been resurrected several times. Some of you probably haven't started at the beginning. So most of the useful information or trading tips has gotten kind of buried. Tom has ben trying his best to commandeer the thread with his almost attacks and pages & pages of dissecting statements etc. Go back to the beginning Tom has admitted he hasn't tried this technique, read the books that are available, or even invested in the tools to try this. Read his posts and it quickly becomes evident he has no, 0.0% knowledge of this. OK, that would mean what he has posted isn't worth spit. If you have 0.0% experience or knowledge why would anyone be expected to listen to anything you say? Please go back and read from the start, his intent is to do nothing except puff up his ego & have everyone bow down to Tom the master debater. All the selective dissecting garbage is nothing but garbage. If you look at these posts it's obvious he's just trying to be an A1 alpha Henry. Folks, go over to the Dowsing forums and you'll see the same childish behaviors. He's been warned by the mods over there, and I think he didn't take their warnings there. Starting the same stuff here shows us he doesn't understand TNets house TNets rules.

    Please go & read, it's plain as day. What useful information or knowledge has he provided? 0.0% Just being an A1 you know what. Hope we can get back to learning & sharing!
    I know it's here, just need a bigger coil!

    I think I know what my last words will be....
    "Hold my beer and watch this!"

 

 
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