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  1. #1336

    Mar 2007
    Salinas, CA
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    Quote Originally Posted by lesjcbs View Post
    Tom, you know exactly what I am saying. It would actually be someone like you who would bury a small target so deep no detector or IR configuration would detect it so you could say
    "See it does not work." ... ..
    Yes. And just as in a metal detector example: I acknowledged that this is not fair to say "it doesn't work" when a test is done that's beyond the contraption's stated abilities. We agree.

    Ok, fine , then show that it works at ANY depth. That can't be chalked up to random eventual chances (blotches, blurs, naturally occurring eventual orbs or streaks, etc.... ). If it can be shown to repeatable @ double blind tests, at stated/claimed depths/abilities: Then the world will beat a path to your door.

    Quote Originally Posted by boogeyman View Post
    ..... Again Sheldon why doesn't it work? Show me why.....
    It is not up to the skeptic to show it *doesn't* work. The burden of proof would be on the claimant to show that it works. Not vice-versa.

    And you know full well that anyone who DID try to show "proof that it doesn't work", will simply be told "you weren't doing it right", or "You need more practice". Right ?
    Huntster54 likes this.

  2. #1337
    us
    Jul 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom_in_CA View Post
    Yes. And just as in a metal detector example: I acknowledged that this is not fair to say "it doesn't work" when a test is done that's beyond the contraption's stated abilities. We agree.

    Ok, fine , then show that it works at ANY depth. That can't be chalked up to random eventual chances (blotches, blurs, naturally occurring eventual orbs or streaks, etc.... ). If it can be shown to repeatable @ double blind tests, at stated/claimed depths/abilities: Then the world will beat a path to your door.



    It is not up to the skeptic to show it *doesn't* work. The burden of proof would be on the claimant to show that it works. Not vice-versa.

    And you know full well that anyone who DID try to show "proof that it doesn't work", will simply be told "you weren't doing it right", or "You need more practice". Right ?
    That claim would be correct if it was not done right like in this case, too little too deep.

    You want to rule out orbs, blotches (stains), streaks, etc. Ridiculous. If you have practiced enough, you will know when you are on a target. Without them would be like using a metal detector that has no beep, no vibration, no light etc to it that tells you it detects metal. Heck, might as well not even have a battery in it either. No Tom, as much as you may like to, you do not dictate parameters for this technique.
    Last edited by lesjcbs; Apr 13, 2019 at 07:58 PM.
    Huntster54 and Tom_in_CA like this.
    Einstein said: I know very well that many scientists consider dowsing as a type of ancient superstition. According to my conviction this is, however, unjustified. The dowsing rod is a simple instrument which shows the reaction of the human nervous system to certain factors which are unknown to us at this time.”

    If dowsing does not work, the Spanish would not have used it as much as they did.

    Practice makes perfect, even in dowsing.

  3. #1338

    Jan 2017
    Antique whites TR-goldmaster Under water model to be posted
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    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    @ryano.
    Also, people tend to sometimes confuse infrared or Ir waves with ultraviolet waves, or Uv waves. Humans basically can't see either. But almost all digital cameras today can see Ir, and perhaps Uv depending on filters I believe.
    But you can put any phone with a camera on and aim a remote at it and you can see the led signals. This is a free way to check if your remote is working. Also handy to use your camera or camera phone to check out hotel rooms in the dark using hidden night cams in the room. Actually, you may see cameras show up in the dim daylight as well. You will not see a camera image, but just the light from the led lighting mounted on the cam.

    Although there are devices today that can pick up video broadcast signals or rf signals as well as wifi and show the actual camera image being recorded.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultraviolet

  4. #1339

    Jan 2017
    Antique whites TR-goldmaster Under water model to be posted
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    33 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Yes there are posts in this thread showing finds using this technique. You will need to go through each page to find them. Of course, the skeptics dismissed them all as lies.

    No, I don't believe anyone on this board dismissed any of the OP posts or ideas as lies. Many have expressed interest and also would like for something like this to work and others have shown what else the results may be.
    I have seen no one accuse this member of lying.
    I'm sorry if someone accused you of lying about your dowsing. I haven't read that on these forums either.

    I wouldn't say your dowsing doesn't work. There's a lot of reasons why it might. But the human body biometrics is a mind boggling mix fluid dynamics, electronics, mechanical and structural physics, frequencies and vibrations that to put dowsing use to just a few parameters wouldn't do it justice.
    If you go to a place of power, as Indian tribes know of, you could/would feel the hum of granite that surrounds you. Why? Is it magnetic, electronic, frequencies we are experiencing? I've purposely hiked people through areas of so called power, just a short distance through it and almost every one, just about every time will later when I ask them if at some point they felt tired had said they felt weird or sick through the area I walked them. Too many randomly and unknown felt something odd they never felt before. Too many times to say it's coincidence. Like your dowsing, you've found things more often than not to dismiss the system. So you believe it works from experience. But if the city called you up to find something in a vast field that they know where it is but you don't, would you be able to say for absolute certainly you will locate it? I don't think you honestly can. But that does not mean dowsing doesn't work.
    Too many parameters in dowsing to blow it off or conclusively say it works. If someone finds water or metal, good on them. For whatever way it worked for them.

    But using photography, there are only so many parameters in the equation, and If I can produce the same looking orbs and bubbles elsewhere in numerous situations including the grassy knoll, then I would say that these artifacts may not be a dependable indicator for verifying underground targets. I did not say they won't, and that someone is lying by trying.
    Last edited by Huntster54; Apr 13, 2019 at 09:11 PM.

  5. #1340

    Jan 2017
    Antique whites TR-goldmaster Under water model to be posted
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    33 times
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    Quote Originally Posted by tsak View Post
    and a simple question for all the believers . is anyone here that used a photocamera and found anything? is there anyone and i don't want to hear about beliefs etc. we don't discuss about God here . we talk about a practical thing here that has two ways , either this technique is working and by using it someone can find buried gold or it's not working. it's that simple. because i've tested it in a test filed and only found orbs and bubbles in the pictures so far.
    Tsak. The reason why i question including the orbs and bubbles in the discovery of your target is orbs and bubbles are a natural artifact of the modern lens elements as well as even telescopes. What isn't a natural artifact of any round lens elements is different color free shaped streaking and hues in layers. Also, like the bogeyman said, some ir.uv filters can see different temps of grass or plants, when sick have different temps perhaps, so they show up in streaks of different colors. Who's to say you aren't seeing sick earth or temp differences. Would bits or chunks of metal cool off the ground above it? Possibly. This could also aid finding something not of the surrounding soil.

    The only things close to a repeatable different artifact that would preclude it as well as an indicator of target response would be the horizontal and vertical flares from the digital ic sensor used to collect light. This happens with too much light overpowering the sensor. Your cameras job is designed for picking up light waves of different values.

    The thing here is to find the target where you don't know the area. Photographing a known spot and then attributing images to that find would likely would not be conclusive. Have you been anywhere in unknown, un-searched field, saw all those same things and then dug up something of metal origin?

    Here's another thing I just thought right now. If you are looking at the digital image of the orbs and bubbles, can you actually accurately know where in that image they are located? Are they 3 inches from the lens? Are they 10 feet.
    And how would you gauge this dependably. Another wrinkle in the theory. It is far too easy to fool the human eye and mind in a photograph. Always has been. Even before computers.

    Keep an open mind.
    Last edited by Huntster54; Apr 13, 2019 at 09:13 PM.

  6. #1341
    us
    Jul 2011
    Pocket dowsing L- Rods shown above. Whites Beach Comber, Bounty Hunter Sharp Shooter II, Whites TM 808, Canon 350D EOS Digital Rebel XT DSLR Camera.
    848
    306 times
    Metal Detecting
    Hunter: Earlier you mentioned about dowsing in this thread, as if it and this technique are similar. They are not. A camera and the human nervous system are very different. I have a friend who dowsed a gold target 15 miles away. At first he did not believe it, but followed through on it. The farthest distance for a camera I read about was 250 yards on a previously unknown water pipe. Unfortunately, this does not happen all the time in every picture. In fact, most of the time it does not as things like temperatures, sky brightness (cloud cover), moisture etc are constantly changing through out any given day. In his book explaining this technique, DV addresses these factors in both pictures and in text.

    Dowsing and this technique have only the long distance factor in common.

    Dowsing is with hands on. This technique is done best with the camera sitting on a tripod, set on a 10 second delay, with your hands off the camera.

    You also mentioned how the human mind can be fooled. The human mind will also default to the easy way out ie. If it does not work like a metal detector works, then it must not and never will work, and everything after that is just luck, random chance, being lucky etc. End of story.
    Last edited by lesjcbs; Apr 14, 2019 at 09:32 AM.
    Einstein said: I know very well that many scientists consider dowsing as a type of ancient superstition. According to my conviction this is, however, unjustified. The dowsing rod is a simple instrument which shows the reaction of the human nervous system to certain factors which are unknown to us at this time.”

    If dowsing does not work, the Spanish would not have used it as much as they did.

    Practice makes perfect, even in dowsing.

  7. #1342

    Jan 2017
    Antique whites TR-goldmaster Under water model to be posted
    50
    33 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    "You also mentioned how the human mind can be fooled. The human mind will also default to the easy way out ie. If it does not work like a metal detector works, then it must not and never will work, and everything after that is just luck, random chance, being lucky etc. End of story."

    You're set solid in your mind that everyone doesn't believe dowsing. And probably called you a liar. Well, I had nothing to do with that and think the above contention isn't the end of the story at all. And I'm not even going to attempt to influence you in your locked mind but your comment is very defensively narrow minded. Since the dowser isn't anything like a detector, that comment doesn't make sense. But...
    In dowsing, aren't you only the receiver? It's an interesting thought that you could be creating a hand shake type of connection where you are emitting a low energy field as well. So in a sense, you can be the detector itself.

    I didn't say dowsing doesn't work, but that the results haven't been documented in any scientific testing that is recognized by reputable groups conclusively. And the reference to dowsing was a comparison to the difficulty in convincing people something is credible.

  8. #1343

    Jan 2017
    Antique whites TR-goldmaster Under water model to be posted
    50
    33 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by tsak View Post
    and a simple question for all the believers . is anyone here that used a photocamera and found anything? is there anyone and i don't want to hear about beliefs etc. we don't discuss about God here . we talk about a practical thing here that has two ways , either this technique is working and by using it someone can find buried gold or it's not working. it's that simple. because i've tested it in a test filed and only found orbs and bubbles in the pictures so far.
    And Tsak, I apologize. For some reason I thought you were the OP showing the technique. I see now you are not and have been frustrated trying to get it to work.
    My comments concerning what I said still hold and that you are correct most likely that all you are seeing is the artifacts so far.
    Have you seen anything like the original posters picture?

  9. #1344
    us
    Jul 2011
    Pocket dowsing L- Rods shown above. Whites Beach Comber, Bounty Hunter Sharp Shooter II, Whites TM 808, Canon 350D EOS Digital Rebel XT DSLR Camera.
    848
    306 times
    Metal Detecting
    "Since the dowser isn't anything like a detectors,...". ? You got to be kidding.


    Oh my friend, the dowser is the detector, unless you believe the rods or pendulum move on their own power.

    Read in my signature block what I quoted Einstein said about dowsing and how he points to the human nervous system role in dowsing. My dowsing finds that number way beyond 300 (I stopped counting at 300 finds several years ago), and the history of dowsing, trumps any modern day double blinded test.

    As for science. Science has been wrong so many times in the past it's beyond being funny. Relying on science and science only, is the address where the "locked and narrow mind" lives.

    I will say this though, up to this time, my dowsing is far more reliable than taking IR pictures to spot or detect an unknown target. But I have seen enough aura's on test targets from time to time that it is worth it to keep studying the technique. It's as simple as that.
    Last edited by lesjcbs; Apr 14, 2019 at 04:11 PM.
    Einstein said: I know very well that many scientists consider dowsing as a type of ancient superstition. According to my conviction this is, however, unjustified. The dowsing rod is a simple instrument which shows the reaction of the human nervous system to certain factors which are unknown to us at this time.”

    If dowsing does not work, the Spanish would not have used it as much as they did.

    Practice makes perfect, even in dowsing.

  10. #1345

    Mar 2007
    Salinas, CA
    Explorer II, Compass 77b, Tesoro shadow X2
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    Les , Les, Les, why why, oh why are we bringing "dowsing" into this ??

    If you are willing agree that something along the lines of "dowsing" has ANYTHING AT ALL to do with whether "digital cameras can see gold", then you have just reduced this entire conversation into being along-the-same debate lines of dowsing. Ie.: Hocus pocus or scientific repeatable testing ?

    I'm the first to admit that dowsing will NEVER be proved or disproved. Because of the perpetual "push-backs" of 1) Need more practice, 2) Dowser not qualified/gifted, and 3) Durned those sun-spots anyhow.

    But I thought this entire thread about "cameras" was to-be-entirely a scientific one. Such that it COULD be tested. ??

    If you've relegated it to the realms of "dowsing", then heck: Why even use a camera ? We can no longer even discuss whether it "works or not", because of the same slippery slope that presents itself if-ever-dowsing attempts to be tested (beyond anecdotal stories).

    Quote Originally Posted by lesjcbs View Post
    .... If you have practiced enough, you will know when you are on a target..... .
    Yup. It's never that it doesn't work. If it "fails to work", that merely means the person didn't practice long enough. Right ?

  11. #1346

    Mar 2007
    Salinas, CA
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    Quote Originally Posted by lesjcbs View Post
    .... Oh my friend, the dowser is the detector, unless you believe the rods or pendulum move on their own power......

    then why oh why oh why will some dowser advocates go to GREAT LENGTHS to explain how the rods MOST CERTAINLY move under their own power. Ie.: some sort of "attraction". And delve into very long explanations. In fact, I could even quote a long-time-forum participant who has said THIS EXACT THING.

    But i can almost guess the answer. It would be "Who cares how it works, as long as it works". Right ? And then the question would become "does it work?" Whereupon the anecdotal stories would be rolled out. Right ? Whereupon a skeptic would ask if those could be "tested" for repeatable workability. And .... it would go down-hill from there.

    But let's get back to the cameras: Is it like dowsing ? Such that it relies on some sort of mystical vibe power from the photographer ? Or are we talking about "cameras", that anyone can take apart, do tests, get double-blind test results, etc.... ?
    Darke likes this.

  12. #1347
    us
    Jul 2011
    Pocket dowsing L- Rods shown above. Whites Beach Comber, Bounty Hunter Sharp Shooter II, Whites TM 808, Canon 350D EOS Digital Rebel XT DSLR Camera.
    848
    306 times
    Metal Detecting
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom_in_CA View Post
    then why oh why oh why will some dowser advocates go to GREAT LENGTHS to explain how the rods MOST CERTAINLY move under their own power. Ie.: some sort of "attraction". And delve into very long explanations. In fact, I could even quote a long-time-forum participant who has said THIS EXACT THING.

    But i can almost guess the answer. It would be "Who cares how it works, as long as it works". Right ? And then the question would become "does it work?" Whereupon the anecdotal stories would be rolled out. Right ? Whereupon a skeptic would ask if those could be "tested" for repeatable workability. And .... it would go down-hill from there.

    But let's get back to the cameras: Is it like dowsing ? Such that it relies on some sort of mystical vibe power from the photographer ? Or are we talking about "cameras", that anyone can take apart, do tests, get double-blind test results, etc.... ?
    What do you think?

    I know of people who could not find a thing using even a metal detector.

    Cameras performance in a double blinded test remains to be seen.

    Stay tuned, I might have some test pictures for you to look at and some test questions about them for you to answer this coming week.
    Last edited by lesjcbs; Apr 14, 2019 at 05:28 PM.
    Tom_in_CA likes this.
    Einstein said: I know very well that many scientists consider dowsing as a type of ancient superstition. According to my conviction this is, however, unjustified. The dowsing rod is a simple instrument which shows the reaction of the human nervous system to certain factors which are unknown to us at this time.”

    If dowsing does not work, the Spanish would not have used it as much as they did.

    Practice makes perfect, even in dowsing.

  13. #1348

    Mar 2007
    Salinas, CA
    Explorer II, Compass 77b, Tesoro shadow X2
    13,667
    10047 times
    Banner Finds (4)
    Quote Originally Posted by lesjcbs View Post
    .... I know of people who could not find a thing using even a metal detector.....
    Good point !! Ok, let's take all of those people that you know. Let's say ........ that there's 100 of these people. Ok: If you ask all 100 of them to "wave a quarter in front of the detector". I'll bet it will "beep" for all 100 of them. Right ?

    And if you bury a quarter in the ground at a few inches (a prescribed stated ability for said-detector), and point to the spot for those 100 people to "swing the detector coil over", I'll bet that it will beep for all 100 of them. Right ? No practice needed. Right ?

    It won't matter how much md'ing experience they have. Right ? Ok, so why the difference for "cameras that see gold" ?
    Nitric likes this.

  14. #1349
    us
    Jul 2011
    Pocket dowsing L- Rods shown above. Whites Beach Comber, Bounty Hunter Sharp Shooter II, Whites TM 808, Canon 350D EOS Digital Rebel XT DSLR Camera.
    848
    306 times
    Metal Detecting
    Tom. I was not the one to bring up dowsing in this thread. Check post 1339.
    Surely you are not worried about pictures and questions I will have for you about them.
    Last edited by lesjcbs; Apr 14, 2019 at 06:32 PM.
    Einstein said: I know very well that many scientists consider dowsing as a type of ancient superstition. According to my conviction this is, however, unjustified. The dowsing rod is a simple instrument which shows the reaction of the human nervous system to certain factors which are unknown to us at this time.”

    If dowsing does not work, the Spanish would not have used it as much as they did.

    Practice makes perfect, even in dowsing.

  15. #1350

    Mar 2007
    Salinas, CA
    Explorer II, Compass 77b, Tesoro shadow X2
    13,667
    10047 times
    Banner Finds (4)
    Quote Originally Posted by lesjcbs View Post
    Tom. I was not the one to bring up dowsing in this thread. Check post 1339.
    ....
    I have reviewed the history, and you are right. You did not introduce it. I stand corrected. I guess I saw your comments on the connection (?) in # 1341 and 1344 and just made the jump-in-conclusion. My bad.

    Quote Originally Posted by lesjcbs View Post
    .... Surely you are not worried about pictures and questions I will have for you about them.
    "pictures and questions" about what ? Cameras that can discern gold ? Dowsing ? Sorry, I lost ya here.

 

 
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