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  1. #1396
    us
    Mar 2003
    Oregon & Texas
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    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by lesjcbs View Post
    Not a strange question coming from you since you tried to lump the first two choices into one, then completely ignored the last question (post #1364). If you don't want to answer the questions, I win. Simple. BTW, I reworded the questions.

    I may have a picture or two today for all to look at. Stay tuned.

    Please present what you have, if anything, that shows, hints, suggests, points to etc that this technique does not work at all, anytime, anywhere, no matter what.
    To explicitly answer your question, I dismiss treasure "auras" as nonsense, so I would simply ignore a photo such as you showed. As I've told you, I've looked at this a few times over the last 20-odd years, both SX-70 and digital, and everything I've seen is completely explainable by boring, mundane photographic physics. Like your photo in #1356. Like every other photo I see.

    If you're using bogus treasure hunting methods expecting any of it to actually work, then you're wasting your time, and you lose. If you're just having fun with make-believe and no real expectations of a discovery, then keep having fun and call it a win. No big deal.
    I believe it, therefore it is true.

  2. #1397
    us
    Jul 2011
    Pocket dowsing L- Rods shown above. Whites Beach Comber, Bounty Hunter Sharp Shooter II, Whites TM 808, Canon 350D EOS Digital Rebel XT DSLR Camera.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl-NC View Post
    To explicitly answer your question, I dismiss treasure "auras" as nonsense, so I would simply ignore a photo such as you showed. As I've told you, I've looked at this a few times over the last 20-odd years, both SX-70 and digital, and everything I've seen is completely explainable by boring, mundane photographic physics. Like your photo in #1356. Like every other photo I see.

    If you're using bogus treasure hunting methods expecting any of it to actually work, then you're wasting your time, and you lose. If you're just having fun with make-believe and no real expectations of a discovery, then keep having fun and call it a win. No big deal.
    Oh I indeed expect a lot out of this technique.

    It goes like this: When all else fails, read and follow the instructions.
    Last edited by lesjcbs; Apr 17, 2019 at 11:41 PM.
    Einstein said: I know very well that many scientists consider dowsing as a type of ancient superstition. According to my conviction this is, however, unjustified. The dowsing rod is a simple instrument which shows the reaction of the human nervous system to certain factors which are unknown to us at this time.

    If dowsing does not work, the Spanish would not have used it as much as they did.

    Practice makes perfect, even in dowsing.

  3. #1398
    us
    Jul 2011
    Pocket dowsing L- Rods shown above. Whites Beach Comber, Bounty Hunter Sharp Shooter II, Whites TM 808, Canon 350D EOS Digital Rebel XT DSLR Camera.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl-NC View Post
    To explicitly answer your question, I dismiss treasure "auras" as nonsense, so I would simply ignore a photo such as you showed. As I've told you, I've looked at this a few times over the last 20-odd years, both SX-70 and digital, and everything I've seen is completely explainable by boring, mundane photographic physics. Like your photo in #1356. Like every other photo I see.

    If you're using bogus treasure hunting methods expecting any of it to actually work, then you're wasting your time, and you lose. If you're just having fun with make-believe and no real expectations of a discovery, then keep having fun and call it a win. No big deal.
    This was a duplicate post.
    Last edited by lesjcbs; Apr 17, 2019 at 10:58 PM.
    Einstein said: I know very well that many scientists consider dowsing as a type of ancient superstition. According to my conviction this is, however, unjustified. The dowsing rod is a simple instrument which shows the reaction of the human nervous system to certain factors which are unknown to us at this time.

    If dowsing does not work, the Spanish would not have used it as much as they did.

    Practice makes perfect, even in dowsing.

  4. #1399

    Mar 2007
    Salinas, CA
    Explorer II, Compass 77b, Tesoro shadow X2
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    Quote Originally Posted by lesjcbs View Post
    ....

    It goes like this: When all else fails, read and follow the instructions.
    So does this mean that if a person can NOT get a claimed-method to work, that means either :

    a) The method does not work, or

    b) they did not read and follow the instructions correctly ?


    The way I'm interpreting you (because it also seems to go hand-in-hand with other "unconventional" TH'ing method proponents) is that you're going with option "B". Right ?

    But why is that ? Don't you see that's a never-ending line ? The proponent will never have to accept that perhaps a method simply doesn't work. They can *always* say : "You didn't do it correctly" and "you need more practice" till infinity. There is NEVER a way to "put the debate to rest". Because this convenient fall-back push-back line perpetually stymies the conversation.

    And now you know why a skeptic doesn't bother to try to DISprove any of the un-conventional methods. Because this roll-out line is sure to follow, if they point out any non-work-ability of the method. Either via their own efforts or anyone else's efforts they can point to, will be summarily dismissed as 1) the person needed more practice, 2) the person didn't read and follow the instructions, and 3) durned those sun-spots anyhow.
    Real of Tayopa likes this.

  5. #1400

    Jun 2012
    Oklahoma
    Equinox 800, Ace 250
    484
    406 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom_in_CA View Post
    Hey there Owassokie. I've gone on record before, as to "why I care less". In brief: I got caught up in Mexican treasure hunts in the early 1990s. While preparing for the excursion, with my interpreter/hosts, this subject came up. And at the time, I had no knowledge whatsoever. Other than "gut hunches" that it sounded like hocus pocus. And my host was about to spend $$ of our common pot $$ on some LRL's (that he saw advertised in TH'ing mags). And was going to bring rods, blah blah.

    I suppose I could have said, as you suggest "who cares ? After all: The placebo affect might help. Eh ?". But when it came to $$ that I was personally putting into the pot, I took interest in the subject. Eg.: Why do i think it's silly ? After all: Hard to argue with pix of dudes posing next to jars of coins, eh ?

    And actually, ... if it WERE attributed to "placebo" and only "inspiration" then: SURE ! You'd be right ! (can you believe I just said that ?) However, read deeper and you'll see that .... No, ... it's not chalked up to that ability, power, etc..... On the contrary: They will say it's: Scientific, explainable, etc....... Ok. You can't have it both ways. Which is it ?
    Tom, I'm with you on your example. If it directly affected me and my money, we'd have a problem. But my points go towards the common guy that comes to TN and enjoys looking for various types of treasure generally as a "hobby", not to make a living. I just think the non-scientific aspects of treasure hunting don't typically hurt people. Therefore, I'm just not as passionate about "educating" them. Honestly, sometimes I wish I could believe in some of the hocus pocus... maybe it would inspire me to get out and search (which is probably the most important aspect of treasure hunting)

  6. #1401
    us
    Jul 2011
    Pocket dowsing L- Rods shown above. Whites Beach Comber, Bounty Hunter Sharp Shooter II, Whites TM 808, Canon 350D EOS Digital Rebel XT DSLR Camera.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Owassokie View Post
    Tom, I'm with you on your example. If it directly affected me and my money, we'd have a problem. But my points go towards the common guy that comes to TN and enjoys looking for various types of treasure generally as a "hobby", not to make a living. I just think the non-scientific aspects of treasure hunting don't typically hurt people. Therefore, I'm just not as passionate about "educating" them. Honestly, sometimes I wish I could believe in some of the hocus pocus... maybe it would inspire me to get out and search (which is probably the most important aspect of treasure hunting)
    :OWA:
    Exceptionally good post and revelation. My hat and retired U.S. AIR FORCE Aircraft maintenance Officer Retired salute goes to you.

    I just realized there are probably some in this and other threads who are arm chair treasure hunters only. But my sympathy goes to those who are physically unable to go out, no matter their age. It
    Last edited by lesjcbs; Apr 18, 2019 at 04:41 PM.
    Real of Tayopa and Owassokie like this.
    Einstein said: I know very well that many scientists consider dowsing as a type of ancient superstition. According to my conviction this is, however, unjustified. The dowsing rod is a simple instrument which shows the reaction of the human nervous system to certain factors which are unknown to us at this time.

    If dowsing does not work, the Spanish would not have used it as much as they did.

    Practice makes perfect, even in dowsing.

  7. #1402
    it
    Sep 2016
    Mexico
    1,944
    9053 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    genttlemen, I used dowsing to locate my knife at times to gain the confidence of some of the Indians, and thus gain access to a story. I would have them hide ny knife, then find it by dowsing, but for some reason I never used it to find a treasure - lack of confidence ?

  8. #1403

    Mar 2007
    Salinas, CA
    Explorer II, Compass 77b, Tesoro shadow X2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Owassokie View Post
    .... the common guy that comes to TN and enjoys looking for various types of treasure generally as a "hobby", not to make a living. I just think the non-scientific aspects of treasure hunting don't typically hurt people.....
    Sure. I know guys that roll their eyes at the "unconventional methods". Yet simply skip any post dealing with the subject. Ie.: They don't care, as you say.

    I guess you can ask yourself why do you (personally) have any topic that interests you. Ie.: if you love Harley Davidsons, or NFL, you're going to tend to watch those things, gab with people about the pro's & con's of certain NFL teams or Harleys, etc... But if you had no interest in Harleys and NFL, you'd flip the TV channel, skip posts dealing with those topics, etc...

    So it boils down to what is your "bee in your bonnet" ? For me, I just became fascinated with "how do the proponent's answer these points-of-reason? " and "Can I be convinced with new evidence that I hadn't previously considered?"

    And if the proponents openly SAID it was nothing but positive thinking placebo, you'd be correct in all your assessment. But as I say: They are NOT saying that. They are chalking it up to some scientific explanation (even if yet, as of now, unknown un-discovered science). Most of them distance themselves from any mystical or supernatural explanation. Lest it immediately devolve into occult or divination. If they came right out and just SAID that was the source of the power, that would be fine. To each his own. But if they appeal to science as the explanation, then it enters into the realm of tech talk & assessing their data /reasons/rationale.
    Real of Tayopa likes this.

  9. #1404
    us
    Jul 2011
    Pocket dowsing L- Rods shown above. Whites Beach Comber, Bounty Hunter Sharp Shooter II, Whites TM 808, Canon 350D EOS Digital Rebel XT DSLR Camera.
    867
    321 times
    Metal Detecting
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom_in_CA View Post
    Sure. I know guys that roll their eyes at the "unconventional methods". Yet simply skip any post dealing with the subject. Ie.: They don't care, as you say.

    I guess you can ask yourself why do you (personally) have any topic that interests you. Ie.: if you love Harley Davidsons, or NFL, you're going to tend to watch those things, gab with people about the pro's & con's of certain NFL teams or Harleys, etc... But if you had no interest in Harleys and NFL, you'd flip the TV channel, skip posts dealing with those topics, etc...

    So it boils down to what is your "bee in your bonnet" ? For me, I just became fascinated with "how do the proponent's answer these points-of-reason? " and "Can I be convinced with new evidence that I hadn't previously considered?"

    And if the proponents openly SAID it was nothing but positive thinking placebo, you'd be correct in all your assessment. But as I say: They are NOT saying that. They are chalking it up to some scientific explanation (even if yet, as of now, unknown un-discovered science). Most of them distance themselves from any mystical or supernatural explanation. Lest it immediately devolve into occult or divination. If they came right out and just SAID that was the source of the power, that would be fine. To each his own. But if they appeal to science as the explanation, then it enters into the realm of tech talk & assessing their data /reasons/rationale.
    And the above are words from an arm chair treasure hunter.
    Last edited by lesjcbs; Apr 19, 2019 at 12:16 PM.
    Real of Tayopa likes this.
    Einstein said: I know very well that many scientists consider dowsing as a type of ancient superstition. According to my conviction this is, however, unjustified. The dowsing rod is a simple instrument which shows the reaction of the human nervous system to certain factors which are unknown to us at this time.

    If dowsing does not work, the Spanish would not have used it as much as they did.

    Practice makes perfect, even in dowsing.

  10. #1405

    Mar 2007
    Salinas, CA
    Explorer II, Compass 77b, Tesoro shadow X2
    13,667
    10095 times
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    Quote Originally Posted by lesjcbs View Post
    And the above are words from an arm chair treasure hunter.
    And you have a valid claim to that statement, because I do not dowse. Nor mess with cameras that are supposedly able to differentiate gold from other background objects . And haven't spent time "trying it", etc.... Thus: Who am I to comment on the subject ? Right ?

    And as such, Congratulations : You are now guilty of what's known as the "Genetic Fallacy"

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_fallacy
    Real of Tayopa likes this.

  11. #1406
    us
    Jul 2011
    Pocket dowsing L- Rods shown above. Whites Beach Comber, Bounty Hunter Sharp Shooter II, Whites TM 808, Canon 350D EOS Digital Rebel XT DSLR Camera.
    867
    321 times
    Metal Detecting
    You are completely and totally wrong by thinking in its 8000 + years history, nothing has ever been found while "dowsing" by anyone, any time, or any where. You are guilty of having a closed mind that is tighter than a steel trap to that fact. You forget, dowsing and using a steel rod to poke in the ground to pin point a target, was all past generations had to locate metals, and they were good at it. The camera is a recent and new technique.

    Keep worshiping science as your God, and you will gain nothing.

    I kind of feel sorry for you. You need some professional psychiatric help.

    Tomorrow I will post some dowsing finds over in that thread and maybe a camera find in this thread. In both cases I will have my lucky 7 charm on me.

    Sleep well tonight.
    Last edited by lesjcbs; Apr 19, 2019 at 10:49 PM.
    Real of Tayopa likes this.
    Einstein said: I know very well that many scientists consider dowsing as a type of ancient superstition. According to my conviction this is, however, unjustified. The dowsing rod is a simple instrument which shows the reaction of the human nervous system to certain factors which are unknown to us at this time.

    If dowsing does not work, the Spanish would not have used it as much as they did.

    Practice makes perfect, even in dowsing.

  12. #1407

    Mar 2007
    Salinas, CA
    Explorer II, Compass 77b, Tesoro shadow X2
    13,667
    10095 times
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    Quote Originally Posted by lesjcbs View Post
    You are completely and totally wrong by thinking in its 8000 + years history, nothing has ever been found while "dowsing" by anyone, any time, or any where..... .
    You must be thinking of someone else. Because I will be the first to acknowledge that people "find" things with dowsing, and ... sure.... even differentiating gold with cameras too, I suppose. There will be no shortage of people who line up (yourself included ) with items they found.

    But the million dollar question is, the definition and criterias for the word "found" and "finds".

    Because if you take 100 pictures, and 1 of them shows an anomaly over a gold item in the landscape, was that evidence that the camera "found" the gold ? Or was that eventual random chance odds ? If you wave a rod at enough likely looking ruins, and dig enough holes (esp. if you use a detector to "pinpoint") and then find something, does that count as a "find" ? Or was that anecdotal ?

    But in any case, no, I don't deny there are "finds". Depending on how a person defines "finds".
    Real of Tayopa likes this.

  13. #1408
    it
    Sep 2016
    Mexico
    1,944
    9053 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Tom, when the free talking stops I have them (The Indians or whomever) hide my knife which I then find by dowsing, it opens previous closed doors of information. As for the camera, there are many lines of force surrounding every object, so far we haven't id'ed many of them by immersion but they now have instruments that effectively id for an element, one of these days they will develop a camera and film that will positively id the energy given off by the element

  14. #1409

    Mar 2007
    Salinas, CA
    Explorer II, Compass 77b, Tesoro shadow X2
    13,667
    10095 times
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    Quote Originally Posted by Real of Tayopa View Post
    ... I have them (The Indians or whomever) hide my knife which I then find by dowsing, ...
    Yes. Anecdotal stories abound, of "finds" like this. It's just a shame that whenever it's come to actual double-blind controlled test experiments : It turns out to be hunches, subtle terrain clues, random chance eventual odds, etc....

  15. #1410
    us
    Jul 2011
    Pocket dowsing L- Rods shown above. Whites Beach Comber, Bounty Hunter Sharp Shooter II, Whites TM 808, Canon 350D EOS Digital Rebel XT DSLR Camera.
    867
    321 times
    Metal Detecting
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom_in_CA View Post
    Yes. Anecdotal stories abound, of "finds" like this. It's just a shame that whenever it's come to actual double-blind controlled test experiments : It turns out to be hunches, subtle terrain clues, random chance eventual odds, etc....

    No it is not a shame that dowsing cannot be tested successfully in a double blinded test (DBT). Every event in our lives cannot be tested, verified, substantiated, proven in such a manner. The real tragedy and shame is in the minds of those who have been brain washed into thinking it must be that way. To think that way is very limiting and ignores hunches, intuitions, the subconscious, and sensing abilities that even the hard core DBT advocates have and use every day.

    How blessed and fortunate past generations were to not be robbed of these gifts, qualities, and talents like so many have today. No wonder old timers yearn for the "good old days".
    Last edited by lesjcbs; Apr 20, 2019 at 11:07 AM.
    Einstein said: I know very well that many scientists consider dowsing as a type of ancient superstition. According to my conviction this is, however, unjustified. The dowsing rod is a simple instrument which shows the reaction of the human nervous system to certain factors which are unknown to us at this time.

    If dowsing does not work, the Spanish would not have used it as much as they did.

    Practice makes perfect, even in dowsing.

 

 
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