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  1. #1411

    Mar 2007
    Salinas, CA
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    Quote Originally Posted by lesjcbs View Post
    .... Every event in our lives cannot be tested, verified, substantiated, proven in such a manner....
    Really ? Ok, let's put that to the test: Can metal detectors be tested, verified, substantiated, and proven in this manner ?

    For example: If you prop up the detector on a table , set it to a slight threshold hum. Then you choose 100 random people off the street. All of whom have zero md'ing experience. Each of them waves the quarter in front of the coil. Ok, you tell me: Will it beep for all 100 persons ?

    If detectors be tested in this fashion, why not the "unconventional" methods ?

    As for "past generations": I certainly wish that the amt. of-time that some belief was held/practiced had a direct correlation to factualness. But unfortunately, it does not. History is FILLED with silly notions that we've since abandoned. Eg.: That the earth is flat, throwing virgins into volcanoes, etc.... Thank goodness we were "robbed of those gifts and qualities", eh ?
    Real of Tayopa likes this.

  2. #1412

    Mar 2007
    Salinas, CA
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    Quote Originally Posted by lesjcbs View Post
    .... Every event in our lives cannot be tested, verified, substantiated, proven in such a manner....
    And studying your quote further, I notice that you say "event" and not "method". Ok, I was morphing that statement into the question of TH'ing "methods", like cameras & dowsing.

    But I notice you say "event", not "method". If, by that, you mean spiritual things (beyond the physical meat and bones, beyond the here & now, etc...) I would agree with you. That yes: There are some things that are NOT measured by science. Because that is not the proper tool for measuring . Just like you and I don't weigh a chicken with a yard-stick. We use a scale, instead of a yard-stick, to weigh a chicken. Thus yes, I'd agree with you that not everything in life can be put into a test tube.

    Is that what you were referring to ? Ok, if so, then: In context of the thread's discussion (unconventional TH'ing methods) is that what you were referring to ? If so: Fine. But then you've opened up another can of worms entirely. By removing this from a scientific technical explanation discussion, you have just moved it into the realms of supernatural, spiritual, etc.... Is that the "power" that you say allows these things ? (cameras, rods, etc... ?)
    Real of Tayopa likes this.

  3. #1413
    us
    Jul 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom_in_CA View Post
    Really ? Ok, let's put that to the test: Can metal detectors be tested, verified, substantiated, and proven in this manner ?

    For example: If you prop up the detector on a table , set it to a slight threshold hum. Then you choose 100 random people off the street. All of whom have zero md'ing experience. Each of them waves the quarter in front of the coil. Ok, you tell me: Will it beep for all 100 persons ?

    If detectors be tested in this fashion, why not the "unconventional" methods ?

    As for "past generations": I certainly wish that the amt. of-time that some belief was held/practiced had a direct correlation to factualness. But unfortunately, it does not. History is FILLED with silly notions that we've since abandoned. Eg.: That the earth is flat, throwing virgins into volcanoes, etc.... Thank goodness we were "robbed of those gifts and qualities", eh ?
    You know exactly what I mean as we are on the subject of dowsing, not throwing virgins into volcanoes and the likes. Further more, I not only said testing I also said verified, substantiated, proven... Heck, we could DBT whether or not one can jump to the moon on a Pogo Stick. So why trifle with words, or is it because of your DBT mind set?

    Along the way here, you keep trying to suggest, describe, relate, and compare dowsing as an act of dowsers trying 100 times to find something, then through random chance, suddenly finds something. You are wrong and are being deceptive on your part to describe it that way. That is not how it works.

    How is it that you came to want to rely on the DBT so much that even if you wanted to, you can not break free of it? In my case with dowsing, I was once a hardcore skeptic about it. Then one day I picked up a pair of dowsing rods and the rest is history.
    Last edited by lesjcbs; Apr 20, 2019 at 12:01 PM.
    Einstein said: I know very well that many scientists consider dowsing as a type of ancient superstition. According to my conviction this is, however, unjustified. The dowsing rod is a simple instrument which shows the reaction of the human nervous system to certain factors which are unknown to us at this time.

    If dowsing does not work, the Spanish would not have used it as much as they did.

    Practice makes perfect, even in dowsing.

  4. #1414

    Mar 2007
    Salinas, CA
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    Quote Originally Posted by lesjcbs View Post
    .... I was once a hardcore skeptic about it. Then one day I picked up a pair of dowsing rods and the rest is history.
    Because you "found" things. Which was Discussed in # 1407 . And to which I have no doubt as to your experiences. It's just a shame it can't be tested. To put those silly skeptics to rest, once-for-all.

    And still waiting for your answer as to-why-science (double blind testing, etc...) isn't the proper measuring tool for it. I'm assuming that it's because it relies on something mystical or spiritual. Right ? In which case, I'd agree with you. But then as I say: The moment you start down that path, is the moment you've opened up an entirely different can of worms.

  5. #1415

    Jan 2017
    Antique whites TR-goldmaster Under water model to be posted
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl-NC View Post
    To explicitly answer your question, I dismiss treasure "auras" as nonsense, so I would simply ignore a photo such as you showed. As I've told you, I've looked at this a few times over the last 20-odd years, both SX-70 and digital, and everything I've seen is completely explainable by boring, mundane photographic physics. Like your photo in #1356. Like every other photo I see.

    If you're using bogus treasure hunting methods expecting any of it to actually work, then you're wasting your time, and you lose. If you're just having fun with make-believe and no real expectations of a discovery, then keep having fun and call it a win. No big deal.
    Well, here is a quick digital from my cheap 45 dollar night camp cam. Set up obviously on my back deck. Early morning and some condensation left over from the warm to cooler nighttime. Are those 'orbs' locating all my aluminum table set? Is there gold under my deck? I don't think so this time. Do my orbs look like the other treasure orbs from this threads image? You and I know the answer. I submit it isn't orbs signalling treasure, but maybe something else in filtered photography could possibly give a clue.Click image for larger version. 

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    Darke and DizzyDigger like this.

  6. #1416
    us
    Jul 2011
    Pocket dowsing L- Rods shown above. Whites Beach Comber, Bounty Hunter Sharp Shooter II, Whites TM 808, Canon 350D EOS Digital Rebel XT DSLR Camera.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom_in_CA View Post
    Because you "found" things. Which was Discussed in # 1407 . And to which I have no doubt as to your experiences. It's just a shame it can't be tested. To put those silly skeptics to rest, once-for-all.

    And still waiting for your answer as to-why-science (double blind testing, etc...) isn't the proper measuring tool for it. I'm assuming that it's because it relies on something mystical or spiritual. Right ? In which case, I'd agree with you. But then as I say: The moment you start down that path, is the moment you've opened up an entirely different can of worms.
    Nothing mystical or spiritual about it. Simply what Einstein said about the human nervous system which you can read in my signature block below.

    Can a mother who is miles away from home sensing something is wrong and be correct be tested in a DBT? Can a wife, mother, father sensing their son was not killed in battle across the world be tested in a DBT? Like dowsing, all these things which come from the same sensing source happen all the time, have their results and you ask for a DBT for dowsing?
    Last edited by lesjcbs; Apr 20, 2019 at 03:11 PM.
    Einstein said: I know very well that many scientists consider dowsing as a type of ancient superstition. According to my conviction this is, however, unjustified. The dowsing rod is a simple instrument which shows the reaction of the human nervous system to certain factors which are unknown to us at this time.

    If dowsing does not work, the Spanish would not have used it as much as they did.

    Practice makes perfect, even in dowsing.

  7. #1417

    Mar 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by lesjcbs View Post
    ... the human nervous system which you can read in my signature block below....
    Then it's "science". Albeit "undiscovered" science. Eh ? And as such, can be tested (even if only for those "with the correct human nervous system"). So that it can be shown NOT to be: Hunches, subtle terrain clues, eventual random chance odds, and other more-plausible explanations. Right ? In other words, since it's science (and not mystical/spiritual) it could be tested. Even if, for sake of argument, we test only those individuals who have the right nervous system.

    You seem to be jumping back and forth. Because earlier, it appeared you were saying it is OUTSIDE the realms of science to test. But now that you're saying it's scientific (albeit undiscovered) . Then that should lend it to being testable.

    BTW: Although Einstein was a genius, You're aware that he was on record as saying various things that turned out be blunders, mistaken predictions, etc... Eh ?

  8. #1418
    us
    Jul 2011
    Pocket dowsing L- Rods shown above. Whites Beach Comber, Bounty Hunter Sharp Shooter II, Whites TM 808, Canon 350D EOS Digital Rebel XT DSLR Camera.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom_in_CA View Post
    Then it's "science". Albeit "undiscovered" science. Eh ? And as such, can be tested (even if only for those "with the correct human nervous system"). So that it can be shown NOT to be: Hunches, subtle terrain clues, eventual random chance odds, and other more-plausible explanations. Right ? In other words, since it's science (and not mystical/spiritual) it could be tested. Even if, for sake of argument, we test only those individuals who have the right nervous system.

    You seem to be jumping back and forth. Because earlier, it appeared you were saying it is OUTSIDE the realms of science to test. But now that you're saying it's scientific (albeit undiscovered) . Then that should lend it to being testable.

    BTW: Although Einstein was a genius, You're aware that he was on record as saying various things that turned out be blunders, mistaken predictions, etc... Eh ?
    It was already explained by Einstein.

    Are you aware or do you wish to ignore that your so called science has had to rethink things in the past and had to change their so called long held facts.

    Attacking the messenger (Einstein) does not change the message and that is what you are trying to do.

    I went dowsing today. I will post my picture on Monday. Right now, since I am using my smart phone and cannot do that with it yet, I am signing off until then.
    Last edited by lesjcbs; Apr 20, 2019 at 05:34 PM.
    Tom_in_CA likes this.
    Einstein said: I know very well that many scientists consider dowsing as a type of ancient superstition. According to my conviction this is, however, unjustified. The dowsing rod is a simple instrument which shows the reaction of the human nervous system to certain factors which are unknown to us at this time.

    If dowsing does not work, the Spanish would not have used it as much as they did.

    Practice makes perfect, even in dowsing.

  9. #1419

    Mar 2007
    Salinas, CA
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    Quote Originally Posted by lesjcbs View Post
    ....

    Are you aware or do you wish to ignore that your so called science has had to rethink things in the past and had to change their so called long held facts....
    When science does a correction, d/t new data (like flat earth vs round earth, heavier than air flight, etc...), then .... at no point ... was it not scientifically testable. In fact, the MERE FACT that it could be corrected , SHOWS that it's subjected itself to tests. Which then over-turned prior erroneous notions. The reason they "re-think" things, is because new data, that can be scientifically tested, corrects for a prior incorrect notion/belief.

    And since Einstein has explained that it's something to do with the human nervous system (which, btw, can be measured ), then .... I'm so glad that we can agree then, that this is scientific and testable . Not powered by mystical or supernatural or spirits or spooks.

    Thus: We both agree it can be double-blind tested, right ? A little bit of a shift from post # 1410 then, eh ?

  10. #1420
    us
    Mar 2003
    Oregon & Texas
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    Quote Originally Posted by lesjcbs View Post
    It was already explained by Einstein.
    Les, was Einstein ever wrong, about anything?

    Are you aware or do you wish to ignore that your so called science has had to rethink things in the past and had to change their so called long held facts.
    Probably the single greatest attribute of science is that it can and will change, and follow the evidence wherever it goes. Sure, there can be stubborn personalities who stick to wrong theories -- even Einstein was guilty of that -- but in the end, the evidence always wins. This is what separates science from religion (or any kind of belief system), and why science is the overwhelmingly best way to determine truth, as far as we can determine it.
    I believe it, therefore it is true.

  11. #1421
    us
    Aug 2018
    Central Florida
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl-NC View Post
    Les, was Einstein ever wrong, about anything?



    Probably the single greatest attribute of science is that it can and will change, and follow the evidence wherever it goes. Sure, there can be stubborn personalities who stick to wrong theories -- even Einstein was guilty of that -- but in the end, the evidence always wins. This is what separates science from religion (or any kind of belief system), and why science is the overwhelmingly best way to determine truth, as far as we can determine it.
    The person Einstein was talking to was the son of a doctor who used dowsing to diagnose people. Einstein admitted he knew nothing about dowsing but would read the papers from Dr. Peisach.

  12. #1422

    Jan 2017
    Antique whites TR-goldmaster Under water model to be posted
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    38 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom_in_CA View Post
    When science does a correction, d/t new data (like flat earth vs round earth, heavier than air flight, etc...), then .... at no point ... was it not scientifically testable. In fact, the MERE FACT that it could be corrected , SHOWS that it's subjected itself to tests. Which then over-turned prior erroneous notions. The reason they "re-think" things, is because new data, that can be scientifically tested, corrects for a prior incorrect notion/belief.

    And since Einstein has explained that it's something to do with the human nervous system (which, btw, can be measured ), then .... I'm so glad that we can agree then, that this is scientific and testable . Not powered by mystical or supernatural or spirits or spooks.

    Thus: We both agree it can be double-blind tested, right ? A little bit of a shift from post # 1410 then, eh ?
    Wait. Was that the only known comment about dowsing attributed to Einstein? If so, Einstein didn't explain a thing. Only that Einstein had a thought that it may have to do with the nervous system. Unless Einstein has a scientific report on solely Dowsing, then Einstein just commenting it might be something doesn't make it science.

    I can say the space shuttle used liquid fuel, but that doesn't make me a rocket scientist.

    I see that Darke responded more succinctly than I did more or less to this prior comment: "It was already explained by Einstein". Which was untrue.
    Last edited by Huntster54; Apr 20, 2019 at 09:05 PM.
    Tom_in_CA likes this.

  13. #1423

    Jan 2017
    Antique whites TR-goldmaster Under water model to be posted
    53
    38 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by Carl-NC View Post
    Les, was Einstein ever wrong, about anything?



    Probably the single greatest attribute of science is that it can and will change, and follow the evidence wherever it goes. Sure, there can be stubborn personalities who stick to wrong theories -- even Einstein was guilty of that -- but in the end, the evidence always wins. This is what separates science from religion (or any kind of belief system), and why science is the overwhelmingly best way to determine truth, as far as we can determine it.
    Ah, but we must forever be diligent for even Science can be corrupted for nefarious ends.
    Real of Tayopa likes this.

  14. #1424
    it
    Sep 2016
    Mexico
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    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    he,he, you can weigh a chicken with a yard stick.

  15. #1425
    us
    Jun 2006
    Out in the hills near wherendaheckarwe
    WHITES, MINELAB, Garrett
    4,197
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom_in_CA View Post
    Yup. And let me guess: You dismiss the results/conclusions he's come to. Right ?
    Did I say that!?!? No Sheldon you don't get to twist things to fit your agenda. Actually, my first thought was I'd like to see what Carl did to get the result without you jumping in with both feet. Jeeze dude didn't your mother give you any attention when you were young??

    While I'm thinking about it. Twice now you've given the account of being ripped off by a guide on some expedition in Mexico. You lost some $$. I'm sort of wondering if this is where all this deep seated hate of dowsing & alternative methods is coming from. So you got naively ripped off by some bad man milking you for $$ for an LRL or something, so you lump all of us into the same pile. And before you start spewing again, where have I made ANY claims? I've pointed at things I've tried because hopefully somebody might read it & with their fresh eyes see something I missed or messed up on. All of this thread has been sharing, experimenting, learning and trading information except for all the negative garbage you've been spewing. I think I understand you now. Thanks for recounting the story how you got ripped off! I should've caught it the first telling. I'm really sorry you've had to live with all this pent up inside. I really am!
    I know it's here, just need a bigger coil!

    I think I know what my last words will be....
    "Hold my beer and watch this!"

 

 
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