5.75 widescan or concentric?

[hsjrev]

I've seen lots of people recommend the 5.75 coil for the Tejon, but I was wondering whether the widescan or the concentric would be better for coin hunting in trashy areas? I assume it would be the concentric but I've been wrong before. What are each of these best suited for?? Thanks.


{edit} Well I think I found my answer on Tesoro's website:

The concentric coil uses two round antennas, one inside the other. This coil is used on most detectors that are designed for coin, jewelry, and relic hunting. Concentric coils discriminate very well and pinpoint very easily because the strongest signal is always in the center of the coil.

Widescan coils use two D-shaped antennas that are placed back to back. Because of this configuration, they are also called “double-d” coils. The widescan coil is less affected by mineralization than the concentric, so it is generally used for gold prospecting or relic hunting in bad ground. Pinpointing is done with the heel or toe of the coil

 

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[SaginawIan]

Yep. The concentric coil works awesome witht he Tejon for coins. It pinpoints perfectly.
Ian

 

[goldnrelics]

Concentric.

 

[luvsdux]

Unless you know you are going to possibly have serious ground issues - the concentric. In larger sizes, the pattern of widescan or DD coils slips through trash a bit better, but the whole point of the 5.75 size is to slip through trash any way. Also, comparable size for size the concentric may go just a bit deeper. I suspect you'll be very happy with the 5.75 concentric. I like it a lot on my umax series detectors.
luvsdux

 

[Fletch88]

Widescan (double D) has better trash separation over a concentric.

 

[atomicscott]

Widescan (double D) has better trash separation over a concentric.

Yep, widescan 5.75 is as deep as stock and has better separation. Also more stable in mineralization

 

[rainyday101]

The DD is often described as a knife edge at the bottom of the field. That is not exactly correct because it is almost impossible to shape an EMI field as such. In reality it may be 2-4 inches wide. If you could look at the actual graph of the EMI field for your coil you would see first hand that it is not perfect and in fact not a knife edge. It can separate better if the swing direction is such that both the target and trash are not in the knife edge. That means the direction of swing is important for the separation to occur. This does make it possible to miss a target because you didn't get the separation because both target and trash were in the knife edge. So for a DD coil separation is a matter of swing direction.

A concentric coil is described as a cone shape with the point down. Again it is not a true point if you could look at a graph of the EMI field. In fact the tip of the cone may be several inches wide. Again if both target and trash are in the tip of this cone you may miss the target. With a concentric overlapping passes is necessary so that at some point the target is in the field and the trash is not. If used properly the concentric is the winner.

 

[atomicscott]

The DD is often described as a knife edge at the bottom of the field. That is not exactly correct because it is almost impossible to shape an EMI field as such. In reality it may be 2-4 inches wide. If you could look at the actual graph of the EMI field for your coil you would see first hand that it is not perfect and in fact not a knife edge. It can separate better if the swing direction is such that both the target and trash are not in the knife edge. That means the direction of swing is important for the separation to occur. This does make it possible to miss a target because you didn't get the separation because both target and trash were in the knife edge. So for a DD coil separation is a matter of swing direction.

A concentric coil is described as a cone shape with the point down. Again it is not a true point if you could look at a graph of the EMI field. In fact the tip of the cone may be several inches wide. Again if both target and trash are in the tip of this cone you may miss the target. With a concentric overlapping passes is necessary so that at some point the target is in the field and the trash is not. If used properly the concentric is the winner.

Ya, I dont buy that. In mineralized ground the DD will penetrate deeper. DD coils are usually more desirable and versatile. By design the DD coils will have better separation as they are at least (as you said) closer to, a knife edge. DD coils are considered an upgrade and a more expensive option on many detectors. On my Vaquero the 5.75 dd coil was a huge improvement over the stock coil, and it ran waaayyy more stable in the gold bearing areas in the desert. If I had the choice I personally would choose a DD coil 95% of the time.

 

[PostalTwo]

as mentioned eariler the concentric is goin to be deeper in mild ground. also concentrics discriminate better than dd .personally unless u got mineralization to deal with i would go with the concentric

 

[atomicscott]

as mentioned eariler the concentric is goin to be deeper in mild ground. also concentrics discriminate better than dd .personally unless u got mineralization to deal with i would go with the concentric

In my ground, the ground balance settings dictate that a dd coil would work better 95% of the time. I really noticed a BIG improvement in target separation when using a DD coil. In black sand areas near the gold bearing rivers, the concentric is nearly unusable out here, it just can't handle the mineralization

 

[chinchilla]

The DD is often described as a knife edge at the bottom of the field. That is not exactly correct because it is almost impossible to shape an EMI field as such. In reality it may be 2-4 inches wide. If you could look at the actual graph of the EMI field for your coil you would see first hand that it is not perfect and in fact not a knife edge. It can separate better if the swing direction is such that both the target and trash are not in the knife edge. That means the direction of swing is important for the separation to occur. This does make it possible to miss a target because you didn't get the separation because both target and trash were in the knife edge. So for a DD coil separation is a matter of swing direction.

A concentric coil is described as a cone shape with the point down. Again it is not a true point if you could look at a graph of the EMI field. In fact the tip of the cone may be several inches wide. Again if both target and trash are in the tip of this cone you may miss the target. With a concentric overlapping passes is necessary so that at some point the target is in the field and the trash is not. If used properly the concentric is the winner.

I agree on that, a nice example could be: concentrics are like soccer balls and DDs are more like footballs.

Concentrics have better depth and discrimination, DDs have more ground coverage and better mineralization handling

 

[rainyday101]

Atomicscott, in mineralized ground you are correct. In mild ground you are incorrect. Target separation on a DD is only good if both objects are not in the knife edge. Swing direction is a key to avoiding this. Don't buy it, try Monte's nail board test and see for yourself.

 

[HDRK11]

If you have an iron infested area (Cellar hole), it sounds like the widescan would be better for seperation? I get confused with some of the conversations.

 

[atomicscott]

Atomicscott, in mineralized ground you are correct. In mild ground you are incorrect. Target separation on a DD is only good if both objects are not in the knife edge. Swing direction is a key to avoiding this. Don't buy it, try Monte's nail board test and see for yourself.

That is why I said in 95% of my sites a dd would be best. I go by my ground balance settings in my area. According to Randy Horton who literally wrote the book on xterra's, if my gb is less than 30% of the total gb range, then I WILL definitely benefit from a dd coil. In 95% of the areas I hunt, my ground phase setting is 15 or less. Therefore I would get better depth from a dd coil. How do you dictate whether a concentric would be better in your ground? Do you check your ground phase numbers as well? I used the concentric and dd coils back to back on the Vaquero and never put the stock concentric back on. It worked soooo much better. You tried concentric and dd coils back to back I assume, you really prefer concentrics?

 

[rainyday101]

AtomicScott, a concentric will work better for me because my ground is mild, real mild. USGS maps confirm it. If you have ground conditions similar to mine a concentric is the winner. Ad mineralization and the DD is a better choice. Yes, in my situation I do prefer the concentric. I consistently get better target separation. Note I said consistently. The DD gives good separation, but as stated earlier it is dependent on swing direction. Monte's nail board test will confirm this. Is it night and day difference? No, your swing direction would have to place both target and trash in the knife edge. Either way, when you hit a trashy area you should slow your swing way down, overlap really well, and check anything questionable from several directions.

 

[atomicscott]

AtomicScott, a concentric will work better for me because my ground is mild, real mild. USGS maps confirm it. If you have ground conditions similar to mine a concentric is the winner. Ad mineralization and the DD is a better choice. Yes, in my situation I do prefer the concentric. I consistently get better target separation. Note I said consistently. The DD gives good separation, but as stated earlier it is dependent on swing direction. Monte's nail board test will confirm this. Is it night and day difference? No, your swing direction would have to place both target and trash in the knife edge. Either way, when you hit a trashy area you should slow your swing way down, overlap really well, and check anything questionable from several directions.

All true! Its VERY important to hit a target from different angles to help verify identification exactly as most detectors owners manuals say. Then the separation characteristic of a particular type of coil will be realized. Can usgs tell the ground conditions at sites that vary drastically within a few feet? Some sites, I will gb at 14, then 20 ft away I need to gb to 20 or more. Im not gonna switch coils every 20 ft so I will use the coil that will work best in varying mineralization. Concentrics will get better depth in ideal ground, but worse depth in bad ground, but a dd wont get worse in good ground, it will remain slightly less than the concentric. Not to mention the better coverage area of the dd at max depth due to the detecting field shape. In the gold mining areas out here the ground changes alot in just a few feet. By checking my gb often I can see on my display how much the ground phase #s change, so I adjust accordingly. Just a bummer for those poor guys that buy an AT pro and need to buy another coil. Bad idea by garrett maybe?

 

[rainyday101]

Atomicscott, I guess I am lucky hunting in my area as the ground is mild all around here. Typical soil is 2-4 inches of topsoil and sand the rest of the way down. Some areas are just loamy topsoil to 12 inches down. Nope USGS won't help much in an area like yours. It can however give you a good idea of iron mineralization in areas. I have read the book written for the Xterra and saw where the GB numbers would dictate which coil works best for your conditions. That is a very helpful table for making informed coil decisions on the Xterra's.

 

[atomicscott]

Atomicscott, I guess I am lucky hunting in my area as the ground is mild all around here. Typical soil is 2-4 inches of topsoil and sand the rest of the way down. Some areas are just loamy topsoil to 12 inches down. Nope USGS won't help much in an area like yours. It can however give you a good idea of iron mineralization in areas. I have read the book written for the Xterra and saw where the GB numbers would dictate which coil works best for your conditions. That is a very helpful table for making informed coil decisions on the Xterra's.

I guess im so used to having this crappy ground that I forget how good some have it! It is a bummer though knowing that I need to buy a coil to actually get my best possible depth out here.

 

[Gregmid40]

In my ground, the ground balance settings dictate that a dd coil would work better 95% of the time. I really noticed a BIG improvement in target separation when using a DD coil. In black sand areas near the gold bearing rivers, the concentric is nearly unusable out here, it just can't handle the mineralization

If one has a very good detector with auto-ground balance, the Fisher 1266X for instance which will go (VERY) deep on almost any good target, than let the detector's auto GB circuitry do the work of handling these tough soil types (AND) use a concentric coil such as the Fisher 3.75" 'bullseye' concentric coil and I am (sure) you'll be going at (least) 7" deep, if not deeper (AND) (most) of your trash, (including) MOST tinfoil will only tick and pop even at a discrimination level at a quarter of the way clockwise (the 9 a.m. level). You couldn't even get away with this on a larger 8" or 10" DD or concentric coil for that matter. The 3.75" coil has kind of like a surface blanker effect in that (all) trash for the most part, is eliminated at the 9 a.m. level except for the tabs and those pesky "silver dollars" (the drink lid aluminum inserts). BUT even (if) one is finding the tabs, keep detecting them. That's where the thin and/or deep gold and silver, brass, white gold will be detected and at really deep levels. My 3.75" coil goes 7"(+) on coins using on my Fisher 1260X from appx. 1986. Not bad for getting in and around high-trash areas. Don't forget, Jack Gifford used to work for Fisher back before he founded Tesoro in around 1982. Also the Tesoro 10X5" elliptical widescan does awesome in trash when attached to my Tejon...!

 

[supertraq]

Small concentric would really be slow,DD doesn't require as much overlap.
Also have the 5" DD on my t2 and I do believe it is just as deep as the stock coil.
In the trash I know it is deeper.