*-*-*-Vaquero or Outlaw?-*-*-*

[Tony (Michigan)]

Dear friends,
I am really in a conundrum.
I've heard great things about the Vaquero and Outlaw.
I live on an old farm where the yards are literally littered with old square cut iron nails from a house that stood here in the early 1800's up to 1920 where it was pulled apart, nail by nail.
I don't want to take the time to dig them all out. It would take me years to do that.

In 20 years, detecting off and on on this property with a Minelab XS, SE and SE Pro I found one Baber dime in the driveway next to an iron nail (with a Minelab Advantage). I've also found 2 mercs and 1 Washington silver. No indian heads. Some Wheaties with the Explorer series.
Only some of the wheats were deep. Mostly 1 to 4" down. One merc I found a couple weeks ago I almost didn't dig because the signal was so iffy due to trash.

Can someone give me some good counsel on what the best thing to get as to the V or O? I don't have a ton of money so don't want to buy both.

I've heard the V goes deeper. How much?
Does someone have a V and an O where one machine could hear a coin at depth and the other couldn't?
On a property down the road I've pulled coins from 8 to 10 inches. Would the V and O hear these?
Thanks for any help.
Tony

 

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[pinenut]

both good, but..

Both V and O will hit a 10" coin, depending on soil and coil used. On average, I'd say that V will be about 2" deeper in most places, with an 8" coil. O will be the one to use in iron trash, but V is less "quirky" to use.
I'd prefer to use O wherever I have trash, but V when I want more depth... Both good machines but O is better in trash.

 

[toasted]

I loved my Vaquero. Hated my Outlaw. Vaquero was a lot deeper if you ask me.

 

[steve1357]

I love my Vaquero. Hated my Outlaw. Vaquero was a lot deeper if you ask me.

Ditto

V blows the O away. Tesoro tried to bring back the Bandido with the O and blew it. No motion all metal is worthless. I have both.

 

[Tony (Michigan)]

Okay so the Vaquero gets coins at 10 inches. That means the greatest depth of the Outlaw would be 8 inches according to Pinenut? But the Outlaw is better in nails and trash than the Vaquero.
toasted says Vaquero is a lot deeper but gives no details? A lot deeper could be 3 feet?
steve1357 says the Vaquero blows away the Outlaw but doesn't say if the Outlaw is better in trash

I am still in a conundrum.

 

[Bill G]

Okay so the Vaquero gets coins at 10 inches. That means the greatest depth of the Outlaw would be 8 inches according to Pinenut? But the Outlaw is better in nails and trash than the Vaquero.
toasted says Vaquero is a lot deeper but gives no details? A lot deeper could be 3 feet?
steve1357 says the Vaquero blows away the Outlaw but doesn't say if the Outlaw is better in trash

I am still in a conundrum.

The Outlaw is not better in my opinion just more quiet so is very smooth running in iron trash real world. The Vaquero is more noisy you have to listen but will get more depth in certain conditions if needed.This is why many say the Outlaw is better in trash or Iron and I think more of a perception than a fact. I do agree and have stated myself the Outlaw is one of the smoothest running detectors in iron trash out there and is a joy to hunt with in these conditions. The Vaquero on the other hand is more temperamental for lack of a better word in these conditions but will get it done big time if you understand the detector. If I could only have one of these two detectors for me it would be the Vaquero. Bothe great detectors in there own right.


Happy Hunting,
Bill G

 

[pinenut]

Okay so the Vaquero gets coins at 10 inches. That means the greatest depth of the Outlaw would be 8 inches according to Pinenut? But the Outlaw is better in nails and trash than the Vaquero.
toasted says Vaquero is a lot deeper but gives no details? A lot deeper could be 3 feet?
steve1357 says the Vaquero blows away the Outlaw but doesn't say if the Outlaw is better in trash

I am still in a conundrum.

No, greatest depth of Outlaw isn't necessarilly 8". I said that they can both hit a 10" coin, but that'll depend on the coin, the soil conditions, and coil you use. In general, I have found Vaquero to be the deeper detector, but like the Outlaw better in trashy spots. My Outlaw will pretty much ignore small nails and bottlecaps before nickels disc out, with a 5.75 concentric coil on it. Vaquero will still have some bottlecaps sounding like good targets, right up to where nickels are also gone. With a DD coil on either detector, that iron issue is even worse, especially so with Vaquero. If you're looking for a sharper discrimination, especially around small iron, consider Outlaw. If you need more depth and don't have as much trash to go through (and don't mind digging nails and bottlecaps), then pick Vaquero. Vaquero is the simpler machine to use, too. The detectors I'm taking out in a few minutes are my high-tone Vaquero and my Bandido II μmax, both with 5.75 concentrics. Like the Outlaw, I prefer the Bandido in trash...but use the Vaquero in places with deeper composted soil and less trash. The area I'm going to in a few minutes, has given up four silver dimes so far, and probably a dozen wheat cents. Some in hard packed sandy dirt with melted aluminum blobs, steep caps and tabs all over, and some in deep composted pine needles...

 

[steve1357]

Tony,
The Vaquero is deeper. It has the HOT circuitry the Outlaw doesn't.

How much deeper? Im seeing 2-3" in my test garden on a buried silver quarter, 10" vs 12-13".

What are you after? A coinshooter or something else? You dont need an Outlaw or Vaquero if you're coinshooting. I take a shovel when I carry my Vaquero.

Save a hundred bucks, get you a Cibola

 

[DiamondDan]

How about giving the 5.75 Compadre a run for the money? 160 bucks. I cannot say how well the Vaquero or Outlaw run in nail-heavy sites, but buddy, lemme tell ya.... I was ASTOUNDED at how well the Compadre cut through the nails in my buddy's back yard. This site is so overloaded with rusted nails I couldn't even find a place to ground balance my other detector. I pulled a bunch of coins out of there that I didn't even hear with the 6x10 on my White's. Right next to and under nails, also. Since it's such an inexpensive and capable little machine, I don't think you would have much to lose in giving it a shot.

 

[Bill G]

Ditto

V blows the O away. Tesoro tried to bring back the Bandido with the O and blew it. No motion all metal is worthless. I have both.

Disagree on part of your statement..

The no motion all metal if used correctly is an awesome tool for following the shape of a larger piece of metal in the ground (very useful tool). The no motion all metal feature is the one thing my Outlaw had that I wish my Vaquero had. Also I would prefer the no motion all metal to be operated by a toggle switch when needed not like it is operated on the Outlaw with a duel push button. I still think this feature is an awesome tool in the field if used correctly.

Happy Hunting,
Bill G

 

[Tony (Michigan)]

The Outlaw is not better in my opinion just more quiet so is very smooth running in iron trash real world. The Vaquero is more noisy you have to listen but will get more depth in certain conditions if needed.

How deep does the Outlaw go in real-world situations to find a dime as opposed to the Vaquero? Would you say the Outlaw will give a very good response on a dime at around 6 inches but struggles at 8 inches? And how deep will the Vaquero go to give a good hit on a dime?

I wonder why Tesoro can't make the Outlaw run as quiet as it does AND run as deep as the Vaquero?

This is why many say the Outlaw is better in trash or Iron and I think more of a perception than a fact. I do agree and have stated myself the Outlaw is one of the smoothest running detectors in iron trash out there and is a joy to hunt with in these conditions.

If the Outlaw is not better in trash and Iron, because it is just more of their perception than fact. Which detector is best in iron nail infestation?

The Vaquero on the other hand is more temperamental for lack of a better word in these conditions but will get it done big time if you understand the detector. If I could only have one of these two detectors for me it would be the Vaquero. Bothe great detectors in there own right.

Happy Hunting,
Bill G

Thanks for your nice post Bill G. Are there instructions on really understanding the Vaquero and its tempermentalness? Man these things are so etherial not to be able to put my finger on anything.
Can you give any ideas as to the Vaquero's tempermentalness? Do you mean it sounds off on iron nails making you think it's deep silver?

 

[Tony (Michigan)]

How about giving the 5.75 Compadre a run for the money? 160 bucks. I cannot say how well the Vaquero or Outlaw run in nail-heavy sites, but buddy, lemme tell ya.... I was ASTOUNDED at how well the Compadre cut through the nails in my buddy's back yard. This site is so overloaded with rusted nails I couldn't even find a place to ground balance my other detector. I pulled a bunch of coins out of there that I didn't even hear with the 6x10 on my White's. Right next to and under nails, also. Since it's such an inexpensive and capable little machine, I don't think you would have much to lose in giving it a shot.

Thanks DiamondDan. That's a thought. If the nails are 6 inches deep and the coins, 8 inches, I wonder if it would hit on the coins?

 

[Tony (Michigan)]

Tony,
The Vaquero is deeper. It has the HOT circuitry the Outlaw doesn't.

How much deeper? Im seeing 2-3" in my test garden on a buried silver quarter, 10" vs 12-13".

What are you after? A coinshooter or something else? You dont need an Outlaw or Vaquero if you're coinshooting. I take a shovel when I carry my Vaquero.

Save a hundred bucks, get you a Cibola

I am just detecting for coins. Of course rings are cool. I basically need a machine where the iron nails are not a problem for the detector.

 

[Bill G]

How deep does the Outlaw go in real-world situations to find a dime as opposed to the Vaquero? Would you say the Outlaw will give a very good response on a dime at around 6 inches but struggles at 8 inches? And how deep will the Vaquero go to give a good hit on a dime?

I wonder why Tesoro can't make the Outlaw run as quiet as it does AND run as deep as the Vaquero?



If the Outlaw is not better in trash and Iron, because it is just more of their perception than fact. Which detector is best in iron nail infestation?


Thanks for your nice post Bill G. Are there instructions on really understanding the Vaquero and its tempermentalness? Man these things are so etherial not to be able to put my finger on anything.
Can you give any ideas as to the Vaquero's tempermentalness? Do you mean it sounds off on iron nails making you think it's deep silver?

Detecting is about a lot of things learning your detector is one of many. What is meant by perception it being if the detector is quieter in trash some folks do better because they only hear the good targets and hear them easier. A hotter detector will be more noisy by nature there for you have to listen to more noise some folks get frustrated trying to listen and decide was that a good or bad noise or a target. They end up digging more junk and get frustrated.

The Outlaw has a smooth quiet circuitry that gets good depth and because it is not as hot the discrimination is very spot on and the detector is quiet when working. A hotter circuit like the Vaquero or Tejon give up a little in the discrimination area and are more noisy when operating (they still disk out stuff very well with that said). This is the price you pay for a hotter circuitry to get more depth in the ground and stands true for all detectors and all brands over all at the end of the day.

You as a new detector user are worrying to much about depth. Pick a detector and learn it well and it will serve you well. The owners manual and time on the machine is your best instructions.



Best of Luck,

Bill G

 

[steve1357]

Disagree on part of your statement..

The no motion all metal if used correctly is an awesome tool for following the shape of a larger piece of metal in the ground (very useful tool). The no motion all metal feature is the one thing my Outlaw had that I wish my Vaquero had. Also I would prefer the no motion all metal to be operated by a toggle switch when needed not like it is operated on the Outlaw with a duel push button. I still think this feature is an awesome tool in the field if used correctly.

Happy Hunting,
Bill G

We disagree on the definition of "correctly".

I use no motion all metal for hunting. Been doing it for years on my F75. I assume most people only use all metal for pinpointing.

No motion all metal has an advantage over running discrimination. When the mineralization of the soil changes suddenly while running discrimination, the detector will sound off thinking it hit a target. In no motion all metal, the threshold changes and remains in it's new level or varies as the mineralization changes.

I can hear the difference between mineralization changes, the discrimination circuitry cannot. A lot easier for me walking an abandoned railroad rightaway in no motion all metal all afternoon instead of jumping every time the detector running discrimination tells me to dig that quarter!

I'm just learning the motion all metal auto retune stuff...

 

[DiamondDan]

Thanks DiamondDan. That's a thought. If the nails are 6 inches deep and the coins, 8 inches, I wonder if it would hit on the coins?

My 5.75 Compadre will hit coins at 5-6" all day long. Any deeper than that is pushing it. Not sure about the 8" model.

 

[Tony (Michigan)]

Detecting is about a lot of things learning your detector is one of many. What is meant by perception it being if the detector is quieter in trash some folks do better because they only hear the good targets and hear them easier. A hotter detector will be more noisy by nature there for you have to listen to more noise some folks get frustrated trying to listen and decide was that a good or bad noise or a target. They end up digging more junk and get frustrated.

The Outlaw has a smooth quiet circuitry that gets good depth and because it is not as hot the discrimination is very spot on and the detector is quiet when working. A hotter circuit like the Vaquero or Tejon give up a little in the discrimination area and are more noisy when operating (they still disk out stuff very well with that said). This is the price you pay for a hotter circuitry to get more depth in the ground and stands true for all detectors and all brands over all at the end of the day.

You as a new detector user are worrying to much about depth. Pick a detector and learn it well and it will serve you well. The owners manual and time on the machine is your best instructions.

Best of Luck,

Bill G

Hi Bill, Maybe I should have put more information about myself out there. I've only been detecting since the early 90's. I have a Minelab XS, SE and SE Pro and Advantage. I also have a White's DFX and some gold detectors plus the DMC II.
The Minelabs do not do too good in iron nail infestation. I often open the screen in all metal and it is a constant cacophony of sounds but I go slowly listening for that high silver sound. Problem with my Minelabs is often when near iron nails they will sometimes give a peep like the coil is over a deep silver. So I have to pinpoint the nails and see if they are the root cause of the peep.

I'm just thinking there must be a Tesoro detector that is great in iron. I've read a lot about the XP Deus in iron but didn't want to bring it up since we are in the Tesoro board.

 

[Tony (Michigan)]

We disagree on the definition of "correctly".

I use no motion all metal for hunting. Been doing it for years on my F75. I assume most people only use all metal for pinpointing.

No motion all metal has an advantage over running discrimination. When the mineralization of the soil changes suddenly while running discrimination, the detector will sound off thinking it hit a target. In no motion all metal, the threshold changes and remains in it's new level or varies as the mineralization changes.

I can hear the difference between mineralization changes, the discrimination circuitry cannot. A lot easier for me walking an abandoned railroad rightaway in no motion all metal all afternoon instead of jumping every time the detector running discrimination tells me to dig that quarter!

I'm just learning the motion all metal auto retune stuff...

Hi steve, So when you are detecting in all metal are you basically hunting in pinpoint mode?

 

[steve1357]

Hi steve, So when you are detecting in all metal are you basically hunting in pinpoint mode?

The detectors I use, F75, Vaquero, and Outlaw have an all metal setting. You don't have to hold in a pinpoint button if that's what you're asking.

The lower freq of Outlaw should help you in nails. You already have the Tejon. I like my old Silver umax, they are still in production, and are lower frequency.

Some guesses are the Mojave is just a tweaked old 7" model Compadre. The new 5.75 and 8" Compadres use a newer circuit board that has less circuitry on it than the older 7" Compadre, the 7" Compadre is deeper.

How far away from Stoof are you? He has quite a collection of Tesoros he could show you.

Would an air test of nails and a quarter help any?

 

[Bill G]

Hi Bill, Maybe I should have put more information about myself out there. I've only been detecting since the early 90's. I have a Minelab XS, SE and SE Pro and Advantage. I also have a White's DFX and some gold detectors plus the DMC II.
The Minelabs do not do too good in iron nail infestation. I often open the screen in all metal and it is a constant cacophony of sounds but I go slowly listening for that high silver sound. Problem with my Minelabs is often when near iron nails they will sometimes give a peep like the coil is over a deep silver. So I have to pinpoint the nails and see if they are the root cause of the peep.

I'm just thinking there must be a Tesoro detector that is great in iron. I've read a lot about the XP Deus in iron but didn't want to bring it up since we are in the Tesoro board.

Tony my apologies,

I can turn the disk down far enough on a Tejon and thumb it back up to separate or tell nails pretty accurately.The Vaquero is not as good at this as the Tejon is but you can learn to hear them pretty well with it. (The Vaquero disk will not go as low in the iron range as the Tejon does).


Read the book in the pic below by Christian Thorsten Mastering the Tesoro Tejon and Vaquero metal detectors you can get it on Amazon. It will tell you more than you could want to know about the Tejon and the Vaquero detectors and how they perform in iron trash and trashy sites. How they perform in detail period, there strength and there weakness.


This is why I now only hunt with a Tejon or the Vaquero at old sites and modern sites. Both these detectors hands down in my opinion are the two best Tesoro detectors available. Even to this day both the Tejon and the Vaquero still outperform and run with the best modern digital detectors for 1/2 the cost. You just got to take the time to learn them.


I still like and prefer hands down the analog signal that the Tejon and the Vaquero detectors use compared to the digital signal that is used in new design detectors on the market today. My reasons are spelled out clearly in the book about these two great Tesoro detectors. Analog sound/signal is better and allows you to differentiate what your hearing to a much greater level in my opinion. Digital is like a video game and one dimensional.

Vaquero disk knob in pic below just as a general reference and the book you need to read if interested in the Tesoro Tejon or Vaquero detectors. Best read I have ever seen on any detectors out there.

Happy Hunting,
Bill G