1783 King George III "GEORGIVS" backwards "S" UPDATE ID 25-83A OMG!

hogge

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1783 King George III "GEORGIVS" backwards "S" UPDATE ID 25-83A OMG!

Went exploring for new spots on Sunday with my brother-in law, DigginitRTB. You would never know this place was there, only 20-30 yds. off the main trail we walk on. We found a stone wall running approx. 100 yds. long along the side of the main trail and thought it was part of a close by foundation. Thought we would check it out anyway and Rich said he thought he found what was a cellar hole. Called me over and sure enough it was. Found a nice button, a trigger guard to an old musket, and this King George III 1783 copper. Couple things are different on this one. The "S" in GEORGIVS is backwards,(almost looks like a "2"), the 3 in the date is slightly seperated from the rest of the date, and the dot after "REX" is below the bust. The shirt or breast of King George is also different from the dies I've looked at. More or less looks like a series of 6 crescent moons. sorry the scans don't look that good but there is alot of detail left on this coin. Also, the back shield is tipped more than the other die varieties I've looked at. :icon_scratch: Can someone help with ID on this one? :icon_study: Thanks HOGGE Saw 2 other posts from Sunday with King George coppers. Musta been the day for these! UPDATE: In recent days this coin has been positively ID'd as a CFT 25-83A one of ONLY 3,(mine being the third), known to exist. I would first like to thank Iron Patch, and Don in SJ, for without their time and help this would NOT have been possible.This site is AWESOME! And would also like to acknowledge the help of PBK and Jeff of PA with the help on my British Belt Tip. Through Don's knowledge and contacts in the Colonial Collectors world, a DEFINITE, POSITIVE, ID on this coin was possible. Byron Weston of PSU, and Gary Trudgen of "The Colonial Coin Collectors Club" have ID'd this coin and want to do a write up for the C4 Newsletter and Colonial Newsletter on this discovery. I WILL be attending the C4 Convention in Boston the week of Nov. 14-17 with the Ryder 7 Vermont, the British Cartridge Box Belt Tip, the 25-83A, and other CFT coppers found this yr. Tony Carlotto will be contacted to take some better pics and do weight and measurements for them for the newsletter. From what these guys are telling me, over the past couple of days with numerous EMails, the example I have is in better condition than the second known example. They want to compare weight, diameter, and die rotation to the other examples. This whole run of LUCK I've had in the last month has been like a dream. There are several people these guys want me to see, and talk to when I attend the C4. I can't wait! THIS COIN IS IN BETTER CONDITION THAN THE SCAN SHOWS! I HATE MY SCANNER! Anyways, Good Luck to all, and many Thanks to ALL who helped me!
 

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Iron Patch

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Re: 1783 King George III "GEORGIVS" backwards "S" UPDATE ID 25-83A OMG!

whispers said:
Hogge my son found a 1778 KING GEORGIVS last sat in east bethel vermont by a church that was built in 1883?what givs with the georgivs up here in new england this year?

Look more into it, it's better than just a Geo. III halfpenny.

George III only issued 1700s halfpennies from 1770-1775
 

whispers

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Re: 1783 King George III "GEORGIVS" backwards "S" UPDATE ID 25-83A OMG!

I don't understan Iron P ? I thoght my boys coin was a halfpence copy?
 

Iron Patch

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Re: 1783 King George III "GEORGIVS" backwards "S" UPDATE ID 25-83A OMG!

whispers said:
I don't understan Iron P ? I thoght my boys coin was a halfpence copy?


You mean a counterfeit?

Being 1778 could mean it's a few things but all are good. Even if counterfeit it's a collectible coin because of the date. (not being 1770-1775)

Can you post some pictures?
 

BuckleBoy

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Re: 1783 King George III "GEORGIVS" backwards "S" UPDATE ID 25-83A OMG!

Iron Patch said:
whispers said:
I don't understan Iron P ? I thoght my boys coin was a halfpence copy?


You mean a counterfeit?

Being 1778 could mean it's a few things but all are good. Even if counterfeit it's a collectible coin because of the date. (not being 1770-1775)

Can you post some pictures?

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,187825.0.html
 

Iron Patch

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Re: 1783 King George III "GEORGIVS" backwards "S" UPDATE ID 25-83A OMG!

I think this should be reconsidered for the banner. :wink: :D :thumbsup:
 

dougadam

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Re: 1783 King George III "GEORGIVS" backwards "S" UPDATE ID 25-83A OMG!

Great find :thumbsup:
 

BuckleBoy

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Re: 1783 King George III "GEORGIVS" backwards "S" UPDATE ID 25-83A OMG!

If that coin is Identified correctly, it is the MORE VALUABLE than ANYTHING currently on the Banner right now.


Get it up top!



-Buckles
 

Golden1

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Re: 1783 King George III "GEORGIVS" backwards "S" UPDATE ID 25-83A OMG!

I seen this coin!!!! and yup its a backwards "S" for sure!
Banner im thinking :thumbsup:
 

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hogge

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Re: 1783 King George III "GEORGIVS" backwards "S" UPDATE ID 25-83A OMG!

Dropped the coin off to Tony Carlotto today. He's going to put all his photography skills to work and get better pics. Both for the forum and C4 newsletter. He is also getting weight, diameter, and die rotation for the guys at Colonial Coin Collectors Club (C4). My dream in metal detecting has come true! I found a rare coin. :thumbsup:
 

Iron Patch

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Re: 1783 King George III "GEORGIVS" backwards "S" UPDATE ID 25-83A OMG!

hogge said:
Dropped the coin off to Tony Carlotto today. He's going to put all his photography skills to work and get better pics. Both for the forum and C4 newsletter. He is also getting weight, diameter, and die rotation for the guys at Colonial Coin Collectors Club (C4). My dream in metal detecting has come true! I found a rare coin. :thumbsup:

You sure did you *%^%>>$$$<<<#%# !
 

Don in SJ

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Re: 1783 King George III "GEORGIVS" backwards "S" UPDATE ID 25-83A OMG!

Iron Patch said:
hogge said:
Dropped the coin off to Tony Carlotto today. He's going to put all his photography skills to work and get better pics. Both for the forum and C4 newsletter. He is also getting weight, diameter, and die rotation for the guys at Colonial Coin Collectors Club (C4). My dream in metal detecting has come true! I found a rare coin. :thumbsup:

You sure did you *%^%>>$$$<<<#%# !

I will second that! :thumbsup:

Don
 

dgaughan

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Re: 1783 King George III "GEORGIVS" backwards "S" UPDATE ID 25-83A OMG!

all i can say is wow that is awesome
 

Don in SJ

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Re: 1783 King George III "GEORGIVS" backwards "S" UPDATE ID 25-83A OMG!

OK folks, hang on to your hats, Iron Patch found this on Stacks Auction website. It seems the coin that Hogge found, has topped his Vermont Ryder 7 for rarity and value.

The Ringo 23-83A is perhaps one of only three known and this one on the auction site is basically the only other one that most have ever seen a photo of, that is until Hoge's find. Read what is said about the coin, and the one in this auction WAS A GROUND FOUND!

I hope the updated photos from Tony do the coin justice and congratulations to Hogge on two great finds in roughly a month period. This find is a BANNER FIND in my opinion.
http://www.stacks.com/lotdetail.aspx?lrid=AN00087873&fs=true

Text from the website follows, but please look at the auction site for the price realized $$$$$ :thumbsup: and photographs of the one sold.

1783 contemporary imitation halfpenny. Ringo 25-83A. George III English type. Fine to Very Fine.

95.2 grains. A star among Mike's counterfeits, a prime specimen of this rare variety. Dark glossy olive green with light brown devices on a slightly oblong planchet. Patina consistent with a ground find, glossy despite microscopic granularity. The obverse legend is essentially complete, including the backwards S in GEORGIVS, though R of REX is obliterated by a swelling that is connected to a break at the nose. The portrait, often-compared to Connecticut M. 2.3-T among scholars of the series, is relatively well-defined. (Bidders will recall that CT M. 2.3-T sold in the Ford IX sale for a stout $92,000). The similarity of the maxillofacial structures of this variety and Miller 2.3-T are easy to recognize, as is the exaggerated base of Britannia's shield and the "lollipop tree" look of the olive branch on the reverse. The reverse figure is as crude as any in the series, with a squat neck, fat forearm and three-fingered hand, and unusual shield. Striking softness eliminates the legs of Britannia and 17 of the date, but the distinctive 83 is clear to the naked eye.

Called Rarity-8 by Ringo, there appear to be just a few specimens from these dies known today. It has long been one of the most famous pieces in the Ringo Collection, here offered for the first time at public auction.


Don
 

Iron Patch

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Re: 1783 King George III "GEORGIVS" backwards "S" UPDATE ID 25-83A OMG!

Yeah that's the kicker, it's a dug coin! :occasion14:
 

creeper71

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Re: 1783 King George III "GEORGIVS" backwards "S" UPDATE ID 25-83A OMG!

HOLY CRAP!! Almost 11,000.00 .. I was thinking maybe 2,000 at most... OMG That is 1000% awesome Hogge!!! I don't know what else to say.. you found something all of us detectors dream about finding everytime we hear a high tone...
 

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hogge

hogge

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Re: 1783 King George III "GEORGIVS" backwards "S" UPDATE ID 25-83A OMG!

Tony is going to take pics tonight. He said he has some stuff that may help clean it a little better. I trust him and told him to do what he can to get better pics. I'm sure that if anyone knows about cleaning old coins it would be him. Will pic coin up again on Fri. when I'm in the area. I think he is going to forward pics to Don in SJ, Gary Trudgen, and Byron Weston along with myself. As soon as I get them I'll update. Hogge
 

Iron Patch

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Re: 1783 King George III "GEORGIVS" backwards "S" UPDATE ID 25-83A OMG!

My last try for the banner, even made a pic. :D
 

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diggingitrtb

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Re: 1783 King George III "GEORGIVS" backwards "S" UPDATE ID 25-83A OMG!

hi all,i go with hogge quite often ,and i would always find something good and he would always say to me you lucky ____ yea thats a bad word.well the luck is going both ways now ,it must be his time and he has been getting lucky ,but thats a good thing you should have seen this hole i found barly a foot deep ,but you could see a rock formation half burried in the dirt,as i yelled for him to come over and look he said i would never have saw that,i may have helped with the finding of that coin,but im very happy for him,its always great to see your friends excited about what they dig up,and what a rare coin congrats and show him the money rich
 

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hogge

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Update: 25-83A going to "Stacks Americana Auction" Jan.15-16 2009

My other post is cluttered so I made a new one with the pics from Tony Carlotto. I guess there was alot of crud on it Hah? the pics from Tony look like the coin is "pitted". Trust me , It's NOT! Has to do with the lighting he used. :thumbsup: Hogge PS. Tony said this coin went into the ground in excellent condition. You should see it under magnification! UPDATE: My brother in law and myself attended the C4 Convention in Boston on Sat Nov. 15th. After talking with David Palmer, Tony Carlotto, Richard August, Ray Williams, Syd Martin (owner of the "Ringo 25-83A"), Mr. Gellman, Mr. McCawley, "Copper" Clem, and several others, we decided to go to auction with Stacks. We both liked what Frank Van Valen had to say and decided to go that route. There was quite a bit of attention this coin recieved and a Mr. Howe of the C4 club took some digital photos of it, hopefully to be put into the C4 newsletter. We had an excellent experience. Everyone was very courteous and helpful in guiding us to our decision. We received a couple of very attractive offers but chose to sell in the well publicised "Americana Auction" with Stacks in Jan. 2009. One of the last people we spoke to, a younger gentleman with a few of Mike Ringos' coins in his case said, " You will see my paddle going up on this one!". He said this even before he looked at it. So the interest in our coin is there, just had to show it around a bit. Good Luck to All and HH! Hogge
 

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