Found on the 4th of July! My 13 year old son finds a GW Button! - Page 2
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  1. #16
    Charter Member
    CANE FIELD BANDITS and IRON BRIGADE MEMBER

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    Re: Found on the 4th of July! My 13 year old son finds a GW Button!

    Quote Originally Posted by johnnyi
    Fantastic find muttondjeeps! As someone who was lucky enough to dig the "laurel wreath " variety of this series of buttons years ago, I have a personal affection for them, and I think there's more history locked into such a small piece of brass than any other "non-pesonal" object we could find, except perhaps a silver center cent (that's next for your son!)

    I do not have access to the Cobb collection, however when looking through Albert's "Record of American Uniform and Historical Buttons" I see something curious. This button of your son's does not match any of them exactly, neither the 11A variety (the contemporary button with close spacing) or even the WC, B, C, or R, (the last of which are considered non-contemporary)

    Although your son's button seems to be a wide spaced variety, the amount of corrosion and wear make it unlikely that it is not contemporary.

    Beyond that though, the upper horizontal "flag" on the left arm of the "W" is clearly thick, while on every other example listed in Albert's it is thin. This seems to distinguish it as a button yet to be recorded, but probably genuine none the less.

    Yet another distinguishing feature of your son's button is the cross hatched background, which does not seem to be evident on the Albert examples.

    Anyway, I think your button is wonderful, probably uinique, and I will as my first task as a new member of the forum, vote for it!

    (now I'm going to post a button find I made a couple weeks ago which is entirely different)

    Agreed. This is an exciting find! The cross-hatching resembles the 5e WITH the upper die strike.


    One thing is for certain, do not clean this find any further. And a BIG congratulations, on July 4th to boot.
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    Any relics, coins, or other items appearing in my signatures were found on PRIVATE PROPERTY with total consent and permission from the owners of said property.

  2. #17
    us
    Oct 2008
    Tulsa, OK
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    Re: Found on the 4th of July! My 13 year old son finds a GW Button!

    Amazingly tied find to today, congratulations to you and your son! oh, and BANNER!!
    Purveyor of fine rusted iron, aluminum cans, and pull tabs since 1995!

  3. #18

    Re: Found on the 4th of July! My 13 year old son finds a GW Button!

    Quote Originally Posted by BuckleBoy
    Quote Originally Posted by johnnyi
    Fantastic find muttondjeeps! As someone who was lucky enough to dig the "laurel wreath " variety of this series of buttons years ago, I have a personal affection for them, and I think there's more history locked into such a small piece of brass than any other "non-pesonal" object we could find, except perhaps a silver center cent (that's next for your son!)

    I do not have access to the Cobb collection, however when looking through Albert's "Record of American Uniform and Historical Buttons" I see something curious. This button of your son's does not match any of them exactly, neither the 11A variety (the contemporary button with close spacing) or even the WC, B, C, or R, (the last of which are considered non-contemporary)

    Although your son's button seems to be a wide spaced variety, the amount of corrosion and wear make it unlikely that it is not contemporary.

    Beyond that though, the upper horizontal "flag" on the left arm of the "W" is clearly thick, while on every other example listed in Albert's it is thin. This seems to distinguish it as a button yet to be recorded, but probably genuine none the less.

    Yet another distinguishing feature of your son's button is the cross hatched background, which does not seem to be evident on the Albert examples.

    Anyway, I think your button is wonderful, probably uinique, and I will as my first task as a new member of the forum, vote for it!

    (now I'm going to post a button find I made a couple weeks ago which is entirely different)

    Agreed. This is an exciting find! The cross-hatching resembles the 5e WITH the upper die strike.


    One thing is for certain, do not clean this find any further. And a BIG congratulations, on July 4th to boot.
    To access J. Harold Cobbs collection, and a closeup of 5b, with thatching, just Goggle it. Go to the colored picks and it will be in the 9 o'clock position, to the left of the Liberty Cap Var. Please also note the bottom of the "G" as it is slightly cut off, or straight as is the button just found. Also note the upper flag of "W" is thick. I don't have access to Alberts, but from the Cobb Collection, it IS an exact match. Sorry to disagree but, it is what it is. 5b. P. S. Could someone please send me a pic of the "E" variety in Alberts you're looking at?
    1783 CFT. KG III 1/2 Penny (25-83A)-1 of 3 known *Sold $3,750, Vermont Landscape Coppers Ryder 6 *Sold $760, Ryder7 (Avatar)** Sold $1,275*,1st Batt Royal Artillery Cartridge Box Sling Belt Tip* SOLD $1,583*,(3)- GW Inaugural Buttons-2-Cobb# 17-J.* Sold both--$405 and $400. *GW Button Cobb 17-I-*Sold $316- New Jersey Copper M14-J Sold $125- Continental Army Button *Sold $800--** British 31st ROF Cartridge Box Plate** SOLD!! (PRIVATE AMOUNT), Vermont Ryder-3 *$1200...To be continued

  4. #19
    us
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    Re: Found on the 4th of July! My 13 year old son finds a GW Button!

    amazing and congratulations, what a GREAT American Independence day find
    Leave no stone unturned.

  5. #20

    Re: Found on the 4th of July! My 13 year old son finds a GW Button!



    Can't get much better for a 4th find!


    Banner all the way!

  6. #21

    Re: Found on the 4th of July! My 13 year old son finds a GW Button!

    Great find in beautiful condition. Banner all the way!
    Finder of Things!

  7. #22
    us
    Feb 2009
    NC
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    Re: Found on the 4th of July! My 13 year old son finds a GW Button!

    Awesome button and a perfect day to find it

    Now you'll knock your other Banner Buttons (1776 No Stamp Act) off. The mods have been rather tight with the Banner selections as of late but this should make it

  8. #23
    us
    Jul 2009
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    Re: Found on the 4th of July! My 13 year old son finds a GW Button!

    "To access J. Harold Cobbs collection, and a closeup of 5b, with thatching, just Goggle it. Go to the colored picks and it will be in the 9 o'clock position, to the left of the Liberty Cap Var. Please also note the bottom of the "G" as it is slightly cut off, or straight as is the button just found. Also note the upper flag of "W" is thick. I don't have access to Alberts, but from the Cobb Collection, it IS an exact match. Sorry to disagree but, it is what it is. 5b. P. S. Could someone please send me a pic of the "E" variety in Alberts you're looking at?"

    Hogge, thank you for the link to Harold Cobb's collection. To be clear, we were not in disagreement at all. Having not seen the Cobb collection, I simply pointed out this particular variety is not listed in Albert's recorded examples. In addition, we are discussing two diffferent numbering systems, Albert's and Cobbs. Clearly this is a variety of the "GW" button which Albert was not aware of, but which Cobb owned, and which he numbered "5b". As I said in my post, it is a fantastic find. The fact that Albert was not aware of it indicates it to be that much rarer. Incidently, I would send you a scan of Albert's "E" variety, however there is no "E" variety of this button design in the Albert records.
    johnnyi

  9. #24

    Re: Found on the 4th of July! My 13 year old son finds a GW Button!

    Superb find by your son appropriately enough on the 4th of July!

    Cobb's numbering system is different from Albert's. Looking in the book it appears to be a WI 11 C or possibly WI 11 B

    WI 11 B says: The device with medium spacing , oval is 17.5 x 10.0mm , button 34mm in diameter

    WI 11 C says: The device with wide spacing, oval is 17.7 x 9.2mm, button 34mm in diameter

    Note: These buttons are believed to be noncontemporary
    .


    I would suggest measuring the oval and see which one matches. I believe the WI 11 B is the correct one, medium spacing.... Do not know what to make of the "Note" statement. Made when?

    Don
    "The mantra has always been don't clean a (copper) coin or it will lose value.
    For undug coins this is true. For dug coins this is untrue.
    The value will increase with judicious cleaning."

  10. #25

    Re: Found on the 4th of July! My 13 year old son finds a GW Button!

    OOPs. My bad. No "E" var. Cobb #--5b...........Alberts # WI-11c.
    1783 CFT. KG III 1/2 Penny (25-83A)-1 of 3 known *Sold $3,750, Vermont Landscape Coppers Ryder 6 *Sold $760, Ryder7 (Avatar)** Sold $1,275*,1st Batt Royal Artillery Cartridge Box Sling Belt Tip* SOLD $1,583*,(3)- GW Inaugural Buttons-2-Cobb# 17-J.* Sold both--$405 and $400. *GW Button Cobb 17-I-*Sold $316- New Jersey Copper M14-J Sold $125- Continental Army Button *Sold $800--** British 31st ROF Cartridge Box Plate** SOLD!! (PRIVATE AMOUNT), Vermont Ryder-3 *$1200...To be continued

  11. #26

    Re: Found on the 4th of July! My 13 year old son finds a GW Button!

    Quote Originally Posted by Don in SJ
    Superb find by your son appropriately enough on the 4th of July!

    Cobb's numbering system is different from Albert's. Looking in the book it appears to be a WI 11 C or possibly WI 11 B

    WI 11 B says: The device with medium spacing , oval is 17.5 x 10.0mm , button 34mm in diameter

    WI 11 C says: The device with wide spacing, oval is 17.7 x 9.2mm, button 34mm in diameter

    Note: These buttons are believed to be noncontemporary
    .


    I would suggest measuring the oval and see which one matches. I believe the WI 11 B is the correct one, medium spacing....

    Do not know what to make of the "Note" statement. Made when?

    Don

    If noncontemporary, definitely shortly there after. When it's only believed, and the button is obviously old, does it really matter? I doubt it.

  12. #27
    HCW
    HCW is offline

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    Re: Found on the 4th of July! My 13 year old son finds a GW Button!

    CONGRADULATIONS . Banner is the smallest part of this to be proud of. Now it's my turn. I hope.

  13. #28
    us
    Relic hunter

    Mar 2008
    Kentucky
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    Re: Found on the 4th of July! My 13 year old son finds a GW Button!

    Awesome Find,

    Nova Treasure

  14. #29
    us
    Jul 2009
    new jersey
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    Re: Found on the 4th of July! My 13 year old son finds a GW Button!

    "OOPs. My bad. No "E" var. Cobb #--5b...........Alberts # WI-11c."

    No, not Albert's W11c either. Although Albert's W11c does have the wide spacing, it also has a thin top line (flag) on the left arm of the "W". The variety newly found here has a thick flag. This is not a variety of any examples shown in Albert, probably making it all the more scarce despite Cobb having had an example. I regret I haven't learned yet how to post a picture, but I will attempt one soon so you can compare the different examples.

    *One more thing; the Albert example that comes closest (WI 11 C) also shows the "GW" almost touching the oval. This newly found example seems to show the GW well within the oval, again confirming it is not an example shown in Alberts.
    johnnyi

  15. #30
    us
    Jan 2005
    SW Iowa
    13

    Re: Found on the 4th of July! My 13 year old son finds a GW Button!

    CONGRATS SAM

    You guys are Hot on those old buttons!! Do you give lessons?

    Good find......
    Bill

 

 
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