Rare Find Today

[johnnyi]

I went back to the spot where I'd found the King William a few weeks ago, hopeing to find the last scraps I'd missed over the years. I kept with the small 5" coil due to all the iron, but boosted sensitivity up to an almost unbearable 26 this time around. All signals were poor and read iron by the numbers. This badly broken signal read a 1f c27 jumping back and forth to a 27f c50. Turns out there was a shotgun shell and iron in the hole.

This is a U.S. Navy buckle (tongue only with loop gone). It is very unlikely I would ever find the wreath, as besides pounding this site hard for so long, much dirt has been carted away and sold for fill, and what little ground that remains is becoming an unofficial dump.

The closest identity to this buckle is listed in Kerksis (page 73) where he describes this buckle having 13 stars (as does mine). Curiously he shows a picture of a similar buckle bearing 17 stars with a slight variance in the angle of the anchor flukes. He never describes that buckle, and any input on this point would be appreciated.

As it stands, the buckle he lists with 13 stars is rated as rarity 9, tied with the rarest of all Naval buckles, and tied with the rarest of all military buckles, Union or Confederate, that are not one of a kind.

 

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[CRUSADER]

Well done on getting the banner on this rare find. But I have no idea what the 9 rating means? Can you explain? I guess it goes to 10 being the rarist of how many known examples?

 

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[johnnyi]

Thanks guys. Crusader to answer your question, Kerksis rates rarity 1 as being common, up to rarity 10 being unique. Between those he guages comparative rarity with known buckles (the most well known and easiest to judge those that exist are rare Confederate buckles): thus rarity 9 being the Arkansas belt plate (and this one), rarity 8 the Mississippi 1851 pattern, rarity 7 the Georgia seal, rarity 6 the OVM and CSA plates etc.. All buckles listed in his book, U.S. or Confederate, conform to the same standard of rarity. I hope I explained that okay. Kugar has access to pehaps some more recent facts regarding these buckles and their rarity, whch he could better explain. Thanks again.

 

[Iron Patch]

Thanks guys. Crusader to answer your question, Kerksis rates rarity 1 as being common, up to rarity 10 being unique. Between those he guages comparative rarity with known buckles (the most well known and easiest to judge those that exist are rare Confederate buckles): thus rarity 9 being the Arkansas belt plate (and this one), rarity 8 the Mississippi 1851 pattern, rarity 7 the Georgia seal, rarity 6 the OVM and CSA plates etc.. All buckles listed in his book, U.S. or Confederate, conform to the same standard of rarity. I hope I explained that okay. Kugar has access to pehaps some more recent facts regarding these buckles and their rarity, whch he could better explain. Thanks again.

The sad part of the deal is it's not CW period! Had it been, you perhaps could be out car shopping.

 

[CRUSADER]

Thanks guys. Crusader to answer your question, Kerksis rates rarity 1 as being common, up to rarity 10 being unique. Between those he guages comparative rarity with known buckles (the most well known and easiest to judge those that exist are rare Confederate buckles): thus rarity 9 being the Arkansas belt plate (and this one), rarity 8 the Mississippi 1851 pattern, rarity 7 the Georgia seal, rarity 6 the OVM and CSA plates etc.. All buckles listed in his book, U.S. or Confederate, conform to the same standard of rarity. I hope I explained that okay. Kugar has access to pehaps some more recent facts regarding these buckles and their rarity, whch he could better explain. Thanks again.

cheers

 

[baspinall]

Definitely one of the nicest buckles found here!

Brian

 

[kuger]

Thanks guys. Crusader to answer your question, Kerksis rates rarity 1 as being common, up to rarity 10 being unique. Between those he guages comparative rarity with known buckles (the most well known and easiest to judge those that exist are rare Confederate buckles): thus rarity 9 being the Arkansas belt plate (and this one), rarity 8 the Mississippi 1851 pattern, rarity 7 the Georgia seal, rarity 6 the OVM and CSA plates etc.. All buckles listed in his book, U.S. or Confederate, conform to the same standard of rarity. I hope I explained that okay. Kugar has access to pehaps some more recent facts regarding these buckles and their rarity, whch he could better explain. Thanks again.

The sad part of the deal is it's not CW period! Had it been, you perhaps could be out car shopping.

Johnny,you said it about as well as I could.CC Hunter said he would reply and enlighten us,he will I am sure.Ironpatch you hit it right on the head!!!It is crazy that this buckle probably dates back to the early 1800's and isnt worth as much as civil war buckle!Its not like it has less history.We commonly encounter a tongue and wreath buckle that features a Star,that dates 1850-1855 ish,We are far from any Civil war action,and if told where and what it doesnt draw any attention now say somebody assumes it was dug near a C.W. battlefield and watch to value soar!!

 

[johnnyi]

"Johnny,you said it about as well as I could.CC Hunter said he would reply and enlighten us,he will I am sure.Ironpatch you hit it right on the head!!!It is crazy that this buckle probably dates back to the early 1800's and isnt worth as much as civil war buckle!Its not like it has less history.We commonly encounter a tongue and wreath buckle that features a Star,that dates 1850-1855 ish,We are far from any Civil war action,and if told where and what it doesnt draw any attention now say somebody assumes it was dug near a C.W. battlefield and watch to value soar!!"

Thanks Kugar, I'll be looking forward to C.C.'s input. I uderstand the thrill of finding any CW relic though, whether it saw battle or not. The story is just too poignant and epic not to feel that way. It's fair enough to put a price on that. You're right though, other periods such as the early 1820's are often ignored, but I think it's partly because they are not fully understood. Aside from maybe a Yul Brenner movie or two, who knows about the constant chasing of pirates and slave traders around the world by a tiny Navy?......unless they happened to dig a relic of the period yesterday and curiousity forced them to sit up half the night and read about it

 

[kuger]

I hear ya!

 

[BuckleBoy]

Thanks guys. Crusader to answer your question, Kerksis rates rarity 1 as being common, up to rarity 10 being unique. Between those he guages comparative rarity with known buckles (the most well known and easiest to judge those that exist are rare Confederate buckles): thus rarity 9 being the Arkansas belt plate (and this one), rarity 8 the Mississippi 1851 pattern, rarity 7 the Georgia seal, rarity 6 the OVM and CSA plates etc.. All buckles listed in his book, U.S. or Confederate, conform to the same standard of rarity. I hope I explained that okay. Kugar has access to pehaps some more recent facts regarding these buckles and their rarity, whch he could better explain. Thanks again.

The sad part of the deal is it's not CW period! Had it been, you perhaps could be out car shopping.

You're right about that!

 

[scratcher]

I think that this discussion highlights the fact that this forum has members on the cutting edge of deciding what 'valuable' is. In my mind the monetary value of certain relics is only proportional to the number of people who are knowledgable about that particular relic or it's association with a particular event. Here's hoping to the continued sharing of information between us all about the lesser known items, so we can decide for ourselves how 'valuable' something is without worrying how much money we could trade it for!

 

[kuger]

I think that this discussion highlights the fact that this forum has members on the cutting edge of deciding what 'valuable' is. In my mind the monetary value of certain relics is only proportional to the number of people who are knowledgable about that particular relic or it's association with a particular event. Here's hoping to the continued sharing of information between us all about the lesser known items, so we can decide for ourselves how 'valuable' something is without worrying how much money we could trade it for!

That is exactly correct,in that there is more collectors of Civil War artifacts than any other era.To me $ dont even come into mind,it irks me when the first thing somebody asks is "how much is that worth"?Shows that in society everything is about dollar figures and the average person has no idea about the history!!

 

[Iron Patch]

I think that this discussion highlights the fact that this forum has members on the cutting edge of deciding what 'valuable' is. In my mind the monetary value of certain relics is only proportional to the number of people who are knowledgable about that particular relic or it's association with a particular event. Here's hoping to the continued sharing of information between us all about the lesser known items, so we can decide for ourselves how 'valuable' something is without worrying how much money we could trade it for!

That is exactly correct,in that there is more collectors of Civil War artifacts than any other era.To me $ dont even come into mind,it irks me when the first thing somebody asks is "how much is that worth"?Shows that in society everything is about dollar figures and the average person has no idea about the history!!

But why should the value be a secret and why shouldn't I ask? It is what it is and I have no problem asking or telling.

 

[kuger]

I guess that came across wrong,I meant the general person on the street I guess,or say a landowner that thinks you are getting rich with the rusty relics he see's you all excited about.I honestly couldnt tell you the $ value of %90 of my stuff,I just dont care.Insurance reasons would be handy I guess.

 

[time4me]

A thing of beauty!

 

[Iron Patch]

I guess that came across wrong,I meant the general person on the street I guess,or say a landowner that thinks you are getting rich with the rusty relics he see's you all excited about.I honestly couldnt tell you the $ value of %90 of my stuff,I just dont care.Insurance reasons would be handy I guess.

I had a feeling you were talking about people outside the hobby. As for values for finds on the forum, if the person wants to say so why not. I really wouldn't have a clue what the buckle above would bring, but I do know there's not near the interest in the period that dates between Rev War and Civil War.

 

[scratcher]

I think that this discussion highlights the fact that this forum has members on the cutting edge of deciding what 'valuable' is. In my mind the monetary value of certain relics is only proportional to the number of people who are knowledgable about that particular relic or it's association with a particular event. Here's hoping to the continued sharing of information between us all about the lesser known items, so we can decide for ourselves how 'valuable' something is without worrying how much money we could trade it for!

That is exactly correct,in that there is more collectors of Civil War artifacts than any other era.To me $ dont even come into mind,it irks me when the first thing somebody asks is "how much is that worth"?Shows that in society everything is about dollar figures and the average person has no idea about the history!!

But why should the value be a secret and why shouldn't I ask? It is what it is and I have no problem asking or telling.

It's all good IP. I think we all enjoy learning the monetary value of our relics, but the knowledge that you and others give us about our lesser known finds makes digging them just as rewarding

 

[kuger]

I guess that came across wrong,I meant the general person on the street I guess,or say a landowner that thinks you are getting rich with the rusty relics he see's you all excited about.I honestly couldnt tell you the $ value of %90 of my stuff,I just dont care.Insurance reasons would be handy I guess.

I had a feeling you were talking about people outside the hobby. As for values for finds on the forum, if the person wants to say so why not. I really wouldn't have a clue what the buckle above would bring, but I do know there's not near the interest in the period that dates between Rev War and Civil War.

Yes absolutely,I have no problem with that!Knowing the value is good.As far as Johnny's buckle,I dont know how you could put a value on it?It is very unfortunate it is broken and incomplete. CC hunter where are you?!!!

 

[goldnow]

I'm sure I will get beaten up for this opinion of mine, but;...

Knowing the market value of a good find is but one part of many ingredients of any antiquity, such as rarity, construction, material, age, history, condition, and origin, that gives the whole picture to the said find. Especially to those of us who don't know that particular category. The value brings it into some perspective to learn and express one's appreciation as to why it is a great find. Otherwise, it's just another buckle or silver Roman coin to many.

I think there is some psychological barrier many of us bear that find the talk of value or money embarrassing, and yet deep down want (not need) to know. It's part of the scoring of the game.

It's no coincidence that all the finds on the banner are valuable.
Value isn't necessarily based on the fact so few exist, and just as often is based on the fact that there are just more collectors demanding one than certain item's availability, such as the 1916-D dime, etc.

I showed a very valuable and important piece here a few months ago, and got little reaction from the t-netters because it was a piece of history not very well known, but I bet if I had mentioned its value, that would have been different.

 

[Iron Patch]

I guess that came across wrong,I meant the general person on the street I guess,or say a landowner that thinks you are getting rich with the rusty relics he see's you all excited about.I honestly couldnt tell you the $ value of %90 of my stuff,I just dont care.Insurance reasons would be handy I guess.

I had a feeling you were talking about people outside the hobby. As for values for finds on the forum, if the person wants to say so why not. I really wouldn't have a clue what the buckle above would bring, but I do know there's not near the interest in the period that dates between Rev War and Civil War.

Yes absolutely,I have no problem with that!Knowing the value is good.As far as Johnny's buckle,I dont know how you could put a value on it?It is very unfortunate it is broken and incomplete. CC hunter where are you?!!!

Cal... probably out digging something good.

 

[whitesPA]

nice