These should not found in the USA ... but here is one !!! Updated W/Link

Hunter1805

Sr. Member
Dec 3, 2005
273
566
NY
Detector(s) used
E Track, Fisher 6a
This was sent to me as part of my research on the coin by my buddy JimNiagara.

That's a hammered Elizabeth I shilling... found in the US has got to be a rare find! They were holed in the reign of William III before being withdrawn in the great recoinage of 1696 . This was posted by the site admin of minelabowners.com.This guy is in all kinda videos ..Sorta famous. he lives in England ,He should know this type of coinage.Grats!!

This is the vid of the hunt and the find ,,, By NiagrcountyNY

http://www.youtube.com/user/NiagracountyNY#p/a/u/0/X9dkDtHE6Vk

I have found reales a Spanish Cob 1655 and a gold coin. I have been detecting for a long time and it takes a lot to get me excited but you never know what is waiting to be uncovered. I was not in England detecting but here in the USA...


ELIZABETH I, 1560-1561,

A silver groat, NOT FOUND IN ENGLAND but here in the USA.... How did this coin find its way to Western New York on top of a mountain hundreds of miles from any ocean? This was a wonderful thrill finding such a unique coin in an unexpected location. The Pilgrims will not land for another 60 years. Indians have not seen a white man in these parts and the nation as we know it has not begun.

I am sure that a settler from England was given this as a family keepsake and was lost during the hard times in the 1830 while trying to eek out a living on a mountain of dirt and rock. or ........

It was lost by some very early unrecorded explorer who made it to the US and traveled up to mountain top and it fell from his sack only to be found 400 years later.

It was found at a dept of 8-10 inches with my E-Track. There is a video on U-Tube and if someone could add the link you will see a real nice day of DETECTING.

I wanted to post this for your enjoyment. I still can't believe that I found this....

Bucky
 

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CRUSADER

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Now that I see the site & other items found, it was clearly shipped over there much, much later than 16th C. What is interesting is that it has very little wear, no signs of clipping & is generally in a good state. So doen't seem to have been in general circulation for very long (certainly not hundreds of years), which means it could have been hoarded for a long time (in the UK). This has some milage, as being a Shilling, one of the largest coins in circulation, it was the play thing of the very rich.
 

scratcher

Sr. Member
Jan 31, 2008
463
45
Re: These should not found in the USA ... but here is one !!!

CRUSADER said:
Hunter1805 said:
This was sent to me as part of my research on the coin by my buddy JimNiagara.

That's a hammered Elizabeth I shilling... found in the US has got to be a rare find! They were holed in the reign of William III before being withdrawn in the great recoinage of 1696 . This was posted by the site admin of minelabowners.com.This guy is in all kinda videos ..Sorta famous. he lives in England ,He should know this type of coinage.Grats!!

This is the vid of the hunt and the find ,,, By NiagrcountyNY

http://www.youtube.com/user/NiagracountyNY#p/a/u/0/X9dkDtHE6Vk

Right OK, I live in England as well, & yes a rare find :wink:

The great recoinage of the hammered coinage was done by punching a hole in the centre of the coin. That was the Law otherwise punching it anywhere else didn't count & was an offence. If your going to demonetise a coin you don't stick a carefully placed hole at the top which allows the Queens head to hang upright.
Read the extract of the Law:

"Persons having unclipt hammered Monies before 10th Feb. 1695, to cause the same to be punched.; After 10th Feb. no unclipt hammered Monies to be current unless so punched.; Receiving, &c. such appearing to be clipt; Penalty; Quarter Sessions empowered to determine Offences.

And in regard such of the Coins of this Realme formerly made with the Hammer and not by the Mill and Presse and which doe att this time remain Whole and Unclipt will still bee most liable and subject to that pernicious Crime of Clipping or Rounding by wicked Persons who regard their owne unjust Lucre more then the Preservation of their native Countrey. For the better Prevention thereof bee it further enacted by the. Authority aforesaid That every Person having such unclipt hammered Moneys in his her or their Hands...doe before the Tenth Day of February One thousand six hundred ninety five or before they dispose of the same cause such unclipt Moneys to bee struck through about the Middle of every Piece with a solid Punch that shall make a Hole without diminishing the Silver And that after the said Tenth Day of February noe unclipt hammered Moneys (that is to say) such Pieces as have both Rings. or the greatest part of the Letters appearing thereon shall bee Current unlesse it be soe struck through And if any Piece struck through shall appeare afterwards to bee clipt noe Person shall tender or receive the same in Payment under the Penalty of. forfeiting as much as the clipt Moneys soe puncht through shall amount to in Tale to bee recovered to the Use of the Poor of the Parish where such Money shall bee soe tendred or received And His Majesties Justices of the Peace or the major part of them in the General Quarter Session upon Complaint to bee made to them of such Offence are hereby impowered to take Cognizance thereof and to determine the same and for that purpose to cause the Parties complained of to appear before them and in case of Conviction to issue their Warrant or Warrants to levy such Penalty upon the Goods and Chattells of the Offenders."

That is good info, Crusader. If i have this straight, then, all the uncut or unclipt coinage was supposed to be center holed. From that point on, if these punched coins got clipped, then they couldn't be used. This was meant to stop the practice of rounding, clipping, etc? Who was punching the coins? So they couldn't use them unless they were punched either? I'm pretty clueless about this kind of thing, so thanks for the help. It seems like most would have gotten the punch treatment then?
 

CRUSADER

Gold Member
May 25, 2007
40,820
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🏆 Honorable Mentions:
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Re: These should not found in the USA ... but here is one !!!

scratcher said:
CRUSADER said:
Hunter1805 said:
This was sent to me as part of my research on the coin by my buddy JimNiagara.

That's a hammered Elizabeth I shilling... found in the US has got to be a rare find! They were holed in the reign of William III before being withdrawn in the great recoinage of 1696 . This was posted by the site admin of minelabowners.com.This guy is in all kinda videos ..Sorta famous. he lives in England ,He should know this type of coinage.Grats!!

This is the vid of the hunt and the find ,,, By NiagrcountyNY

http://www.youtube.com/user/NiagracountyNY#p/a/u/0/X9dkDtHE6Vk

Right OK, I live in England as well, & yes a rare find :wink:

The great recoinage of the hammered coinage was done by punching a hole in the centre of the coin. That was the Law otherwise punching it anywhere else didn't count & was an offence. If your going to demonetise a coin you don't stick a carefully placed hole at the top which allows the Queens head to hang upright.
Read the extract of the Law:

"Persons having unclipt hammered Monies before 10th Feb. 1695, to cause the same to be punched.; After 10th Feb. no unclipt hammered Monies to be current unless so punched.; Receiving, &c. such appearing to be clipt; Penalty; Quarter Sessions empowered to determine Offences.

And in regard such of the Coins of this Realme formerly made with the Hammer and not by the Mill and Presse and which doe att this time remain Whole and Unclipt will still bee most liable and subject to that pernicious Crime of Clipping or Rounding by wicked Persons who regard their owne unjust Lucre more then the Preservation of their native Countrey. For the better Prevention thereof bee it further enacted by the. Authority aforesaid That every Person having such unclipt hammered Moneys in his her or their Hands...doe before the Tenth Day of February One thousand six hundred ninety five or before they dispose of the same cause such unclipt Moneys to bee struck through about the Middle of every Piece with a solid Punch that shall make a Hole without diminishing the Silver And that after the said Tenth Day of February noe unclipt hammered Moneys (that is to say) such Pieces as have both Rings. or the greatest part of the Letters appearing thereon shall bee Current unlesse it be soe struck through And if any Piece struck through shall appeare afterwards to bee clipt noe Person shall tender or receive the same in Payment under the Penalty of. forfeiting as much as the clipt Moneys soe puncht through shall amount to in Tale to bee recovered to the Use of the Poor of the Parish where such Money shall bee soe tendred or received And His Majesties Justices of the Peace or the major part of them in the General Quarter Session upon Complaint to bee made to them of such Offence are hereby impowered to take Cognizance thereof and to determine the same and for that purpose to cause the Parties complained of to appear before them and in case of Conviction to issue their Warrant or Warrants to levy such Penalty upon the Goods and Chattells of the Offenders."

That is good info, Crusader. If i have this straight, then, all the uncut or unclipt coinage was supposed to be center holed. From that point on, if these punched coins got clipped, then they couldn't be used. This was meant to stop the practice of rounding, clipping, etc? Who was punching the coins? So they couldn't use them unless they were punched either? I'm pretty clueless about this kind of thing, so thanks for the help. It seems like most would have gotten the punch treatment then?
Thats pretty much it. I guess it was mostly merchants & shop keepers, pub owners etc. If it got back to the mints they were melted down & used for the new coinage.
 

OP
OP
H

Hunter1805

Sr. Member
Dec 3, 2005
273
566
NY
Detector(s) used
E Track, Fisher 6a
I want to thank all of you for the great informatiom provided by many here about my find. I learned many things about the coin. That is what this site is all about, sharing informatiom when fellow posters are unsure about what they found. This is a great site for this ... Thanks People for all you time in posting a responce.

Jim


""The great recoinage of the hammered coinage was done by punching a hole in the centre of the coin. That was the Law otherwise punching it anywhere else didn't count & was an offence. If your going to demonetise a coin you don't stick a carefully placed hole at the top which allows the Queens head to hang upright.
Read the extract of the Law:

"Persons having unclipt hammered Monies before 10th Feb. 1695, to cause the same to be punched.; After 10th Feb. no unclipt hammered Monies to be current unless so punched.; Receiving, &c. such appearing to be clipt; Penalty; Quarter Sessions empowered to determine Offences.

And in regard such of the Coins of this Realme formerly made with the Hammer and not by the Mill and Presse and which doe att this time remain Whole and Unclipt will still bee most liable and subject to that pernicious Crime of Clipping or Rounding by wicked Persons who regard their owne unjust Lucre more then the Preservation of their native Countrey. For the better Prevention thereof bee it further enacted by the. Authority aforesaid That every Person having such unclipt hammered Moneys in his her or their Hands...doe before the Tenth Day of February One thousand six hundred ninety five or before they dispose of the same cause such unclipt Moneys to bee struck through about the Middle of every Piece with a solid Punch that shall make a Hole without diminishing the Silver And that after the said Tenth Day of February noe unclipt hammered Moneys (that is to say) such Pieces as have both Rings. or the greatest part of the Letters appearing thereon shall bee Current unlesse it be soe struck through And if any Piece struck through shall appeare afterwards to bee clipt noe Person shall tender or receive the same in Payment under the Penalty of. forfeiting as much as the clipt Moneys soe puncht through shall amount to in Tale to bee recovered to the Use of the Poor of the Parish where such Money shall bee soe tendred or received And His Majesties Justices of the Peace or the major part of them in the General Quarter Session upon Complaint to bee made to them of such Offence are hereby impowered to take Cognizance thereof and to determine the same and for that purpose to cause the Parties complained of to appear before them and in case of Conviction to issue their Warrant or Warrants to levy such Penalty upon the Goods and Chattells of the Offenders."[/size][/i][/i]""""
 

ivan salis

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Feb 5, 2007
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in plain english--- in 1696 all the hammered coinage in england was recalled --for remanufactoring into "milled coins" due to their "new" milled edge they could not be shaved or clipped without it be noticed ( folks used to shave or clip the edges of the silver coins thus shorting the amount of silver in it to the next guy down the line)-- to demonitize hammered coins they were "center punched" so there was no loss of silver in the process -- to "punch a hole" eslewhere upon the coin was a crime -- to prevent shaving and silver stealing in general this was done.--- so the coin HAD to have left england before 1696 or it would have be subjected to the great "recall" of 1696

as a seaman from a near 300 year long line of seaman in my family -- seaman often carried their birth year coin in days of old as a good luck omen and also as a ready scource of "emergency " cash as well
 

scratcher

Sr. Member
Jan 31, 2008
463
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Re: These should not found in the USA ... but here is one !!!

"Persons having unclipt hammered Monies before 10th Feb. 1695, to cause the same to be punched.; After 10th Feb. no unclipt hammered Monies to be current unless so punched.; Receiving, &c. such appearing to be clipt; Penalty; Quarter Sessions empowered to determine Offences.

Ivan, doesn't this imply that if the coins were previously unclipt and then punched that they were still useable as currency? It appears from this info supplied by Crusader that the main reason for the practice was solely to stop the clipping, not to demonitize the coins. Maybe I'm not reading it right, though.

I was thinking the same thing as you, that if a non center-holed coin is found then there is a better chance that it was lost earlier than 1695, left England earlier, or was holed to be worn for one reason or the other and not as likely to have been intended to be spent (unless it was done prior to 1695). I realize that this still doesn't help with figuring out anything about Hunter's coin, I'm just interested in learning a little more about this topic.... Thanks for the info guys
 

ivan salis

Gold Member
Feb 5, 2007
16,794
3,809
callahan,fl
🏆 Honorable Mentions:
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Detector(s) used
delta 4000 / ace 250 - used BH and many others too
with it not being center punched * it would have had to left england before the recall law of feb 10th, 1696 took hold -- on that date all hammered coins that were not "clipped coins" had to be center punched * in a way that lost no silver content --clipped coins had to be turned in and were no longer legal tender * peroid --as the center punched coins got turned in to the govt, they were melted and made into "new style" milled coins --the "new" coins due to their "milled edges" the could not be shaved or shorted of their silver content whithout it being highly noticible -- a sort of anti shorting of the silver coinage program by the govt to stop folks from cheating others and the govt as well since taxes paid with shaved money cheated the govt of their "silver" by weight.
 

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