Found a Very Rare Military Button! NEW INFO ADDED 11 Aug 10

ColonialDude

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I have found many Revolutionary War buttons over the years, some of which are quite rare. I never thought my rarest button find yet would be from the War of 1812, but it appears as though that's the case.

When I dug this button I had been finding nothing but bottle caps and pull tabs from people camping and fishing. The hunt was not going well at all. Then, right by a picnic table I get a nice hit but it was very shallow. I expected a modern target, but at 3 inches or so I pulled this button out. When I first found it it was CAKED with dirt and looked to have nothing on the front at all. The back of the button was quite visible however, and when I saw the gold gilt and the backmark I knew I better take a closer look at the front. Usually I wait until I get home, but I had to know what this button was. I picked off a hard piece of dirt from the front and was stunned when I saw what was on the button. Not knowing U.S. buttons very well, I was confused as to what I had. I clearly saw 'United States Artillery' on the face, and a stack of 6 cannon balls. I knew based on the button design it was quite old, but not Revolutionary War. The War of 1812 made sense as there was a lot of activity during the conflict in that area. However, I had never seen a U.S. artillery button from the War of 1812 with this design. I figured it must date slightly before or after the war as I knew the backmark was a fairly old and good one.

When I got home I looked it up in Alberts book and was pleasantly surprised to see a RV of 100, which seemed to me to be quite rare in comparison to most buttons. The book seems to suggest at the time of printing the example in the photograph was the only known example. I have scoured the internet and all of my reference books, but can't find another example anywhere. I was told the example in the book is in the Smithsonian, although I can't confirm that. There is a note in Alberts under the button which points to the 'National Button Bulletin, May 1962' for more info on the particular example in the book. I don't have it, and can't find it. Any chance one of you owns this issue?? I would love to know what it says!

I am left wondering if this button is numer 2 of 2 known. Can anyone provide any more info on the button or confirm how many are known to be out there??

What I know of the button, it is a United States Artillery, 2nd Regiment button. Made in 1808. I am also told (but again can't confirm) there were only about 300 made as Armitage made them as samples, but never received the contract.

As you can see in one of the pics, the button was still quite dirty (even after I removed some caked on dirt in the field) when I got it home. I knew there was some gilt under there and hit it with some aluminum jelly. Cleaned up quite nice. The front is nice, but the back blows me away!
 

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Upvote 9

birdman

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Steve in PA

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Re: Found a Very Rare Military Button! (9 Aug small update)

That is a mighty fine button! I am partial to those War of 1812 era buttons. Much more so than the later 2 piece buttons of the civil war era.
 

Mainedigger

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Re: Found a Very Rare Military Button! (9 Aug small update)

Awesome button, congrats!!!! :icon_thumleft:
 

May 8, 2009
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Re: Found a Very Rare Military Button! (9 Aug small update)

I can't believe no one mentioned the two bird dogs in the picture below the cannon balls. You just cant see the forest for the trees. :laughing7:
 

kuger

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Re: Found a Very Rare Military Button! (9 Aug small update)

I am not even going to go back and look for the phantom #'s!! :laughing7:Stellar find and a nice addition to your Banner ribbon!!! :thumbsup:
 

kuger

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Re: Found a Very Rare Military Button! (UPDATED with new INFO)

BuckleBoy said:
You have my Banner vote. That is a superb button in top notch condition. Even without the shank, it will be a high-dollar find. I also want to congratulate you on the cleaning methods as well. Again--Top Notch.


Regards,


Buckleboy

Buckles,am I missing something?It looks like the shank is there?
 

{Sentinel}

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Re: Found a Very Rare Military Button! (UPDATED with new INFO)

ColonialDude said:
sjarchangel said:
PS. . . Many WO 1812 buttons were obtained along the Canadian Border and the "RV" indicates Relative Value. eg. "RV 100" indicates a US Dollar value of approximatley $100.00.

SJA

Yes, I am aware many War of 1812 buttons are found along the Canadian Border, most notably Niagara. I completely disagree with the RV-100 = $100 statement. The "RV" or "Relative Value" has no direct association with a specific dollar figure, and I believe the author states as much in his book although I don't have it handy right now. If this logic were true, a very rare political button (RV-250) that typically sells for thousands is worth a mere $250?? Not the case.

That is what the button was worth in the 70s. Today however, its used more as a "Rarity Scale" rather than the actual value. :wink:
 

U

umrgolf

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Re: Found a Very Rare Military Button! (UPDATED with new INFO)

sjarchangel said:
The book I have is dated 1976. There may be other editions I'm not aware of.

SJA :-)

The information you gave is correct.. RV-100= $100, RV standing for relative value, was the relative value when Albert's book was first published and obviously worth much more on today's market. Congrats on the banner.
 

{Sentinel}

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Re: Found a Very Rare Military Button! (UPDATED with new INFO)

fieldslayer said:
Tice is no lightweight regarding military buttons. After all , he did write a great reference book. However , his expertise seems to mainly center on Civil War buttons (I own his book), and is disappointingly lacking on earlier material, it seems. However, make no mistake about it, this is NOT a commonly found button. Other than the one in Alberts book, I have personally seen only 3 in 30 years. 1 from FL, 1 from GA, and 1 from NJ ; none have I been able to trade for as yet. It is indeed a SCREAMER of a find ! One alleged authority told the owner of one that there are approx. 20+ known examples. I have heard mixed reviews on this major dealers integrity, and do not know him personally, so take this info as you like. At any rate, $2000 seems a bit much, but all that gilt sure does'nt hurt ! Regardless, it won't sell cheap ! Hope this added experience helps. Congratulations - fieldslayer :icon_thumleft: P.S. - Those who think this is a reproduction , need to stick to hunting schoolyards ! :tongue3:

Warren Tice is a stand up guy and if anything I believe that the price he ballparked for you may be a low-ball estimate when you consider buttons such as the Confederate "M" button which is worth about 4 to 5 thousand dollars and it isn't even as rare as this War of 1812 button apparently is....
 

CRUSADER

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Re: Found a Very Rare Military Button! (UPDATED with new INFO)

kuger said:
BuckleBoy said:
You have my Banner vote. That is a superb button in top notch condition. Even without the shank, it will be a high-dollar find. I also want to congratulate you on the cleaning methods as well. Again--Top Notch.


Regards,


Buckleboy

Buckles,am I missing something?It looks like the shank is there?

yeap, the point :D
 

kuger

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Re: Found a Very Rare Military Button! (UPDATED with new INFO)

CRUSADER said:
kuger said:
BuckleBoy said:
You have my Banner vote. That is a superb button in top notch condition. Even without the shank, it will be a high-dollar find. I also want to congratulate you on the cleaning methods as well. Again--Top Notch.


Regards,


Buckleboy

Buckles,am I missing something?It looks like the shank is there?

yeap, the point :D

Obviously Cru,thanks :tongue3:
 

OP
OP
ColonialDude

ColonialDude

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Re: Found a Very Rare Military Button! (9 Aug small update)

Well for those still following this thread and are interested, here is the latest update.

I received a copy of The National Button Bulletin, May 1962. This is the article referenced in Alberts book in regards to this button.

I have attached a copy of the article, hopefully it works. It doesn't say a whole lot, or anything about the quantity of these buttons made, bt clearly at the time the article was written there wasn't much known as it was a relatively new discovery. It appears however there were several known examples at the time. Still a very rare button obviously, but certainly not 1 of 2.
 

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Ironman!

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Very awesome button! Thanks ColonialDude, for posting that amazing dug piece of history!! Congrats on the banner also!!! And also, like Buckleboy said, great job on cleaning that beauty!!!!

IM
 

bigscrub

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super nice button, and a banner find is indicated...but i will also agree with a few of the others...the second pic you posted does show a 123 under the cannon balls and just over the artillery letters...im really suprised you cant all see it....while some can see it and some not...does the pics of the example you found not show the 123...?...im guessing not...! strange...but not any reason to pull the pics or post is it?...hh to all...a great find my friend!
 

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ColonialDude

ColonialDude

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bigscrub said:
super nice button, and a banner find is indicated...but i will also agree with a few of the others...the second pic you posted does show a 123 under the cannon balls and just over the artillery letters...im really suprised you cant all see it....while some can see it and some not...does the pics of the example you found not show the 123...?...im guessing not...! strange...but not any reason to pull the pics or post is it?...hh to all...a great find my friend!

Ugh...not again. You THINK it shows a 123...but it doesn't. As stated previously, the guy holding it in his hands who can manipulate it under different lighting conditions and angles and view it under a jewellers loop can confirm there is NO 123....but I guess some just won't let it die.

I would be happy if there was a 123 as I would have a variety of button never before found...but it's simply not the case. :help:
 

{Sentinel}

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ColonialDude said:
bigscrub said:
super nice button, and a banner find is indicated...but i will also agree with a few of the others...the second pic you posted does show a 123 under the cannon balls and just over the artillery letters...im really suprised you cant all see it....while some can see it and some not...does the pics of the example you found not show the 123...?...im guessing not...! strange...but not any reason to pull the pics or post is it?...hh to all...a great find my friend!

Ugh...not again. You THINK it shows a 123...but it doesn't. As stated previously, the guy holding it in his hands who can manipulate it under different lighting conditions and angles and view it under a jewellers loop can confirm there is NO 123....but I guess some just won't let it die.

I would be happy if there was a 123 as I would have a variety of button never before found...but it's simply not the case. :help:

As Pristine as All the Other Letters are, there would NOT be a "1,2,3" Worn and barely Visible
 

Deepdiger60

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First i would like to say i started that 123 thing and i was wrong i do not have the button in hand ColonialDude does and if anyone can see what is on that button he can sometimes our eyes can play tricks on us its like yawning 1 does it and a lot follow ::) anyway Congrats on the Banner !! beautiful button :headbang: also i found a interesting article on the history of the 2nd Artillery Regiment unit in Don Troiani,s Soldiers in America 1754 1865.
 

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W57

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As Pristine as All the Other Letters are, there would NOT be a "1,2,3" Worn and barely Visible
[/quote]

OK, apologies in advance, but as upsetting as this may be to some, I am going to continue to harp on the "Phantom 123", These do not look like they are intended to be part of the buttons design, but look more like "mold numbers" probably intended to identify a sample as the "One over two over three cannon balls" design. A digital camera will pick up details not visible to the naked eye. How 'bout posting a link to some raw digital images of the non existant numbered area...
 

CRUSADER

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W57 said:
As Pristine as All the Other Letters are, there would NOT be a "1,2,3" Worn and barely Visible

OK, apologies in advance, but as upsetting as this may be to some, I am going to continue to harp on the "Phantom 123", These do not look like they are intended to be part of the buttons design, but look more like "mold numbers" probably intended to identify a sample as the "One over two over three cannon balls" design. A digital camera will pick up details not visible to the naked eye. How 'bout posting a link to some raw digital images of the non existant numbered area...
[/quote]
:D
 

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