!~1793 Flowing Hair Wreath and Bars Large Cent!~

[SouthJerseyJim]

Well Christmas sure came early today! I ventured out to an old stand by expecting to suck up a button or two but was very pleased with my finds today. The rain in the area made the loamy ground very soft and wet. I was picking signals for a solid 2 hours out of an area pounded by many detectorist including myself. First signal was a nice tombac button. About 20 minutes later I got a very loud solid 92 on my T2 very shallow. Thinking can or quarter on the surface. I flipped this bad boy out of the ground and nearly died when I wiped the dirt off the face! HOLY #@$E%. I was hunting solo so I just quietly celebrated making several phone calls to m hunting buddies. Beautiful 1793 Wreath and Bars large cent!!









After finding this I pounded the area and came up with some beautiful buttons too. One looks to be some sort of NJ National guard. Scoville back






Next beauty is this harp button with a bunch of clovers surrounding it. Havn't Id'ed it yet but could be military. Best Standard makers mark.



Last but not least my first (colonial) Jews harp! Very small and very cool.



I also made a little video that I can't figure out how to post as of yet. But enjoy the pics and Have a MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!!

 

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[SouthJerseyJim]

Chain is next on the list. Maybe Heavymetalnut will let me borrow his for a while Im wondering If I should get this slabbed by PCGS? Any ideas?

 

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[jgas]

I would have had a heart attack if we were to find a fantastic coin like that here in the midwest! Congrats on well deserved Banner! jgas

 

[Iron Patch]

Chain is next on the list. Maybe Heavymetalnut will let me borrow his for a while Im wondering If I should get this slabbed by PCGS? Any ideas?

I wouldn't. Just see no advantage to it unless you need to confirm authenticity or variety.

 

[SouthJerseyJim]

Thanks guys. I may have to take a trip to Don's house and let him clean the coin. I don't want to risk messing it up. Maybe I should just sleeve it and let it be.

 

[Iron Patch]

Thanks guys. I may have to take a trip to Don's house and let him clean the coin. I don't want to risk messing it up. Maybe I should just sleeve it and let it be.

It looks pretty good in the last few pictures. What have you done so far and what do you think is left to clean? I do see a little risk there because of the way the edge seems to have flaked off. You definitely don't want brown/surface spots over the rest of the coin. If you have already used water (and especially soap) you already dodged a bullet it's still good as it is.

 

[jerseyben]

Re: Irish button

Thanks again guys! Don I found something interesting about your Union Greens button. Kinda looks exactly like yours.http://maryland1812.wordpress.com/2011/03/29/baltimore-hibernian-corps-of-union-greens/

Still can't find any info on the one Monte and I found though. I see a 2 piece similar but not a one piece. Still searching.....

Jim, hopefully I will hear something this week from one of the half dozen POC's of Hibernia units I sent out information requests for yesterday.
Now about that link, yes, that is MY BUTTON, and my photo of my button. I think I may have to consider it free advertisement but think I will try and find out who used my photo, but I think I know who is responsible and if so that is fine with me, but do wish they had given me credit for being the owner and my photo credit... Seems like I just went thru something like this with Garrett Detectors.

I knew with the 200th anniversary of the War of 1812 coming up and between now and 1814 (when the Battle of North Point/Ft McHenry) happened that getting the word out on my button could not do it harm for increasing the value on the market, which I am looking for it to become desireable by the War of 1812 button collectors which are a smaller group than say Civil War and the premium for Rev War era buttons.............

Don

Don, they just printed something about you in the "Garrett Searcher" publication. Is this what you are referring to?

 

[SouthJerseyJim]

IP I didn't do anything to it yet. Soap and water you say?

 

[Iron Patch]

IP I didn't do anything to it yet. Soap and water you say?

No, definitely not soap and water. That's what not to do.

If it was mine I'd soak it in room temp. peroxide for a few minutes, brush it lightly to dislodge the dirt, and then lay it flat to dry. (never any water) That is the best way to keep the color, but no guarantees you won't lose a little green. If it's just dirt than cleaning it dry might be the way to go.


PS: How does your coin shine if you never used water? The last pics it looks cleaned.

?



I'm actually glad I posted them, because it looks like it's just different lighting.... but seeing them again it looks like you can easily clean it dry. Just use a toothpick and toothbrush and take your time cleaning a little bit at a time. Just graze the dirt to make it loose and brush it away. Work like a surgeon! I usually use the peroxide method posted about but to clean it dry and be guaranteed to keep 100% of the patina might be the way to go.

 

[pumice]

All way cool stuff...... ...congrats!!!

 

[SouthJerseyJim]

Put a smudge of olive oil on it to brighten it up. No water.

 

[{Sentinel}]

HALLELUJAH...HALLELUJAH... HALLELUJAH, HALLELUJAH, HALLE LU JAH (As the Song Goes ) Merry Christmas with the Holy Grail Find! I don't put this little smiley down often, but it's most assuredly deserved here:

 

[Iron Patch]

Put a smudge of olive oil on it to brighten it up. No water.

Then you eliminated cleaning it with peroxide, because cleaning comes before sealing. There's not really much you can do at this point, although leaving it as-is is not a bad thing.

 

[jerseyben]

Put a smudge of olive oil on it to brighten it up. No water.

Then you eliminated cleaning it with peroxide, because cleaning comes before sealing. There's not really much you can do at this point, although leaving it as-is is not a bad thing.

Following your steps for cleaning, would the last step be to RINSE (not wash) it in distilled water or skip water completely after the peroxide?

 

[Iron Patch]

Put a smudge of olive oil on it to brighten it up. No water.

Then you eliminated cleaning it with peroxide, because cleaning comes before sealing. There's not really much you can do at this point, although leaving it as-is is not a bad thing.

Following your steps for cleaning, would the last step be to RINSE (not wash) it in distilled water or skip water completely after the peroxide?

I don't because water can wash away some of the patina. Also... if I have something I want to keep all the color when I peroxide it I add in a bunch of other corroded stuff to get the peroxide nice and dirty. If the corrosion is on the thick side I'll sometimes rub it making it into a paste, and that works pretty well to keep the patina. I did that with a belt plate I found which had some hard caked on dirt, but I really wanted it to be green. I hp'ed it, rubbed it to make a green paste, took it out and used a paper towel and toothpick to get rid of the grit, and it looks great. My old way was to get home and run everything under the tap giving me stuff that was green with brown spots.

Everything is different and it's all about making the right choice... and you don't do anything until you make up your mind.

 

[Don in SJ]

Put a smudge of olive oil on it to brighten it up. No water.

Then you eliminated cleaning it with peroxide, because cleaning comes before sealing. There's not really much you can do at this point, although leaving it as-is is not a bad thing.

Following your steps for cleaning, would the last step be to RINSE (not wash) it in distilled water or skip water completely after the peroxide?

In my opinion and experience, a soak in distilled water helps neutralize any acids left over and from all the coppers I have cleaned I have not seen a final soak in (warm) distilled water followed by a thorough drying before sealing the copper (if only needed) do any damage to the coin, if it does than the coin was in bad shape to begin with.

Also, coating a copper with olive oil usually makes it rather hard to do further removal of the crud using peroxide, if the coin has a good solid(not porous) surface, (few do) you can use dish detergent to remove the film, since if it is a non-porous surface the oil is just a sheen on the surface and can be removed enough to try further crud removal.

Just this week my youngest son, who does not metal detect but did a couple times with me and on one hunt he found 4 Large Cents. This was back in the late 80s, back then I used to soak my coppers and buttons in Olive Oil, which I regret for the most part to this day. Anyway, he brought over 3 of the Large Cents and I tried to attribute the variety of all 3 and did eventually get 2 out of 3 ID'd, but it was not easy, the olive oil cleanings did not remove enough crud in important areas for IDing, but since they were soaked in Olive Oil, I doubt I can do any more crud removal now without damaging the coppers.

We all must remember, just about all of our older ground found coppers will have varying degrees of corrosion and each coin is different and only experience will tell you how to proceed with cleaning(crud/dirt removal), one thing I do not recommend, leaving a coin with the dirt and crud on it, if that is one's belief to leave as is, than I hope they at least try to thoroughly dry the coin to slow down the possible corrosion taking place under the crud.

Jerseyben, yes the Garrett correction notice was the result of someone using my photo of a friend's find, saying they found the coin and I believe by submitting to Garrett the find they did recieve a nice "gift". Garrett did not realize the person neither found the coin and did not take the photograph, thus the correction notice. The photo also appeared in the Garrett Advertisement in the Silver and Gold 2011 issue of W&E magazine.(The coin was found with a Minelab)

Don

 

[SouthJerseyJim]

After looking at the coin again(still laying on the kitchen counter) I dont think it can be cleaned anymore. It needs some kind of coating to preserve it though. Cant I just seal it in an clear epoxy cube.

 

[nsdq]

After looking at the coin again(still laying on the kitchen counter) I dont think it can be cleaned anymore. It needs some kind of coating to preserve it though. Cant I just seal it in an clear epoxy cube.

i would get it slabed as is a certifed as is

 

[CRUSADER]

Never seen a NJNG button posted before. I like it almost as much as the mystery Harp Button

 

[SouthJerseyJim]

Thanks Sentinel! I still need to venture down your way and dig some real old stuff. Cru, The NJ NG seems fairly common. Saw a bunch non dug on the net. The Harp button still no ID. I know its an old one. You can see the seam through half of the button on the back. I hope its rare because its mint.

 

[Don in SJ]

Thanks Sentinel! I still need to venture down your way and dig some real old stuff. Cru, The NJ NG seems fairly common. Saw a bunch non dug on the net. The Harp button still no ID. I know its an old one. You can see the seam through half of the button on the back. I hope its rare because its mint.

Jim, I have not received any replies from the Irish Reenactors organization I contacted, hopefully after the Holidays I will get a reply since most of the emails addys seemed to be work related ones....... My NJ NG button is not in the best of shape but the only one I ever found.

Oh, the Harp button, I just remembered something that really makes me want to date that button to the War of 1812 time frame. You said it has a seam on the back, but yet the backmark seems like a English backmark. I remember reading that American button makers in the early 1800s were not putting out the best quality type buttons so they would buy plain faced buttons of English origin and than stamp on the front the design they wanted, like a military one. The "seam" could be the result of how they did the restamping, not a mold mark. I think it is called an "Anvil" mark.. I will try and find the exact reference in Tice's book if I can. So bottom line I think the button is an English made button that was stamped by an American maker or firm selling buttons and that it is most likely military and related to one of the units that was organized during the War of 1812 possible, just like my Union Greens buttons. (At least I hope it is a War of 1812 button)

Don