ZINC BUTTON

[got2dig]

Guys, I dug this zinc base of a williams cleaner, it looks like it was made in to a button. It was dug around a camp site.

They used what they had.

 

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[Tnmountains]

I would have never thought of that but it sure would work as a button. Who knows those guys were brilliant at holding themselves together.

 

[Goldiver]

Very cool!

Steve

 

[got2dig]

I would have never thought of that but it sure would work as a button. Who knows those guys were brilliant at holding themselves together.

TM, can't say that's what it is. But it looks like it would work so I put it in with my buttons. We just have to open up and look hard and try to make something out of these kind of find, and that's the one I come up with on this one. It may just be something to kill time in camp or a game piece? HH

 

[CRUSADER]

Not sure it was ever a Williams Cleaner Bullet, but it is mostly Lead & could have been a few things, but I'm not convinced its was meant to be a button. I find loads of similar pieces, but it hard to place there purpose.

 

[VOL1266-X]

Confederates were desperate for buttons here in the western theater of the war but as Cru said we will never know for sure. Based on the things I have seen converted into buttons, it well could be the zince insert was used for that purpose. In fact, I have submitted another article to North South Trader's Civil War Magazine entitled "Western Theater Confederates had to make do". Good find. I too would have added it to my buttons. HH, Quindy.

 

[CRUSADER]

Confederates were desperate for buttons here in the western theater of the war but as Cru said we will never know for sure. Based on the things I have seen converted into buttons, it well could be the zince insert was used for that purpose. In fact, I have submitted another article to North South Trader's Civil War Magazine entitled "Western Theater Confederates had to make do". Good find. I too would have added it to my buttons. HH, Quindy.

I agree, we will never know for sure, but one of the things that put me off was that it would not function well at all, in fact it would properly pop off alot. (I do realise things get changed from there original function all the time & not always during difficult periods/shortages)

Look at the 'shank' it goes all the way to the edge of the 'button' edge, this would cause to not to hold properly.

 

[got2dig]

I did look at that Crusader and it dose have the shank come over the side. But put on as a button it would work as a fast fix. And the shank would have passed through the button hole as well. It is the a zinc bass of a williams cleaner. I have found many william cleaners and many of the zinc bass pieces. The button is just one thought it may have been a game piece or just as I say a time killer something to have done in camp to pass the time. We find lots of strange pieces around a battle field and have to try to picture what the use of them was. And as we all know we may never know.

 

[CRUSADER]

I did look at that Crusader and it dose have the shank come over the side. But put on as a button it would work as a fast fix. And the shank would have passed through the button hole as well. It is the a zinc bass of a williams cleaner. I have found many william cleaners and many of the zinc bass pieces. The button is just one thought it may have been a game piece or just as I say a time killer something to have done in camp to pass the time. We find lots of strange pieces around a battle field and have to try to picture what the use of them was. And as we all know we may never know.

Clearly you have more experience in CW bullets than me but it looks more Lead than Zinc, although a Lead-alloy including Zinc would make sense. Pure Zinc would look nothing like your photo & would not bend easily either.

 

[got2dig]

Clearly you have more experience in CW bullets than me but it looks more Lead than Zinc, although a Lead-alloy including Zinc would make sense. Pure Zinc would look nothing like your photo & would not bend easily either.

Crusader, here are some pic of the piece with a williams cleaner. if you cut in to one they look the same as lead.

 

[CRUSADER]

Crusader, here are some pic of the piece with a williams cleaner. if you cut in to one they look the same as lead.

View attachment 724009 View attachment 724010 View attachment 724011 View attachment 724012 View attachment 724013

Therefore, why say Zinc that looks nothing like Lead or lead-alloy?

 

[Silver Searcher]

Looks like a Make Shift Lead Button, proberbly made from said bullet....interesting, seen a few make shift bullets posted before, but not like this one. Thanks for showing the extra pictures, clears things up a bit.

 

[CRUSADER]

I was also looking for signs of it being carved on the 'shank' because most of it would have been in the centre of the body of the bullet, does it show cut marks?

 

[got2dig]

The williams .58 cal. was manufactured by Elijah D. Williams. Williams patent called for the use of a zinc washer and pin or plunger as a means for the bullet to take the rifling of the muskket. The zinc washer would expand into the rifling to clean out the bore hence the nickname ( cleaner). You may look up the paten if you feel the need. For I don't have the number.

 

[got2dig]

I was also looking for signs of it being carved on the 'shank' because most of it would have been in the centre of the body of the bullet, does it show cut marks?

With it in hand you can see that it has been worked in to this shape. The tip that is on the side has been cut and pushed to the bass.

 

[CRUSADER]

The williams .58 cal. was manufactured by Elijah D. Williams. Williams patent called for the use of a zinc washer and pin or plunger as a means for the bullet to take the rifling of the muskket. The zinc washer would expand into the rifling to clean out the bore hence the nickname ( cleaner). You may look up the paten if you feel the need. For I don't have the number.

So, that explains it, the plug was inserted afterwards into a hole in the bullet? (The 'Zinc' must have had a larger mix of lead to come out like that.)

 

[Gunrunner61]

Thats a COOL homemade Button!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I want one!.........HH

 

[CC Hunter]

So, that explains it, the plug was inserted afterwards into a hole in the bullet? (The 'Zinc' must have had a larger mix of lead to come out like that.)

The cleaner bullets were entirely designed and manufactured specifically to clean the bore on muzzle-loading rifles (rather than simply an insert for a standard bullet). The main nose section of a Williams Patent Cleaner bullet, is molded of lead with a hollow shaft hole at the base. There is then a bottom base of lead also or pin with a shaft (depending on the variety of Williams Cleaner bullet), that is designed to fit in the base of that specially designed bullet body. The zinc portion, is a thin washer, that is slightly convex, fitting in the gap between the bullet nose and inserted base. Upon firing, the base and shaft portion of the bullet is pushed up against the main nose portion, whereby the zinc washer is expanded outward, to assist in cleaning the bore of the rifle. Since the zinc washer portion is very thin, and considering that zinc does not withstand the elements of exposure in most ground conditions, accounts for few Williams Cleaner bullets being found with intact zinc washer portions.

The possible field-made "button" shown above, which is likely the base of a type II Williams Cleaner bullet, is in fact lead alloy and not zinc. The zinc portion would have been a very thin washer type piece, fitting on the shaft (now bent over). The zinc washer would have been larger diameter than the lead base of the bullet, yet the convex shape of the washer when manufactured, would keep the actual diameter flush with the bullet, until firing compressed and expanded the zinc washer. The length of the bent over shaft on the excavated example, of possible use as a "button", seems longer than what I've seen on the more commonly encountered Type III Williams Cleaner bullets. My hunch leans towards the Type II base as origin. The Type III was basically the same design, with a shorter nose and body section having two rings, opposed to the longer three ring version seem in Type II bullets.

Since Williams Cleaner bullets were prone to mishaps such as jamming when fired, experienced soldiers were soon removing the cleaner bullets from the cartridge packages prior to and during battle (originally 1 cleaner bullet was included with 9 standard rounds in a package, later increased during the war to include additional cleaner rounds). At one battlefield site in Tennessee that my father, myself, and associates were searching for relics 30 years ago, the vast number of dropped (discarded) Williams Cleaner Type III that were recovered, soon had the hill dubbed "Williams Cleaner Hill" by our group of relic hunters. Evidently this was a staging point for the battle, and discarded Williams cleaner rounds attested to the dislike by the troops.

Williams Cleaner Type I

Williams Cleaner Type III


CC Hunter

 

[wheatfinder13]

Awesome find

 

[CRUSADER]

The cleaner bullets were entirely designed and manufactured specifically to clean the bore on muzzle-loading rifles (rather than simply an insert for a standard bullet). The main nose section of a Williams Patent Cleaner bullet, is molded of lead with a hollow shaft hole at the base. There is then a bottom base of lead also or pin with a shaft (depending on the variety of Williams Cleaner bullet), that is designed to fit in the base of that specially designed bullet body. The zinc portion, is a thin washer, that is slightly convex, fitting in the gap between the bullet nose and inserted base. Upon firing, the base and shaft portion of the bullet is pushed up against the main nose portion, whereby the zinc washer is expanded outward, to assist in cleaning the bore of the rifle. Since the zinc washer portion is very thin, and considering that zinc does not withstand the elements of exposure in most ground conditions, accounts for few Williams Cleaner bullets being found with intact zinc washer portions.

The possible field-made "button" shown above, which is likely the base of a type II Williams Cleaner bullet, is in fact lead alloy and not zinc. The zinc portion would have been a very thin washer type piece, fitting on the shaft (now bent over). The zinc washer would have been larger diameter than the lead base of the bullet, yet the convex shape of the washer when manufactured, would keep the actual diameter flush with the bullet, until firing compressed and expanded the zinc washer. The length of the bent over shaft on the excavated example, of possible use as a "button", seems longer than what I've seen on the more commonly encountered Type III Williams Cleaner bullets. My hunch leans towards the Type II base as origin. The Type III was basically the same design, with a shorter nose and body section having two rings, opposed to the longer three ring version seem in Type II bullets.

Since Williams Cleaner bullets were prone to mishaps such as jamming when fired, experienced soldiers were soon removing the cleaner bullets from the cartridge packages prior to and during battle (originally 1 cleaner bullet was included with 9 standard rounds in a package, later increased during the war to include additional cleaner rounds). At one battlefield site in Tennessee that my father, myself, and associates were searching for relics 30 years ago, the vast number of dropped (discarded) Williams Cleaner Type III that were recovered, soon had the hill dubbed "Williams Cleaner Hill" by our group of relic hunters. Evidently this was a staging point for the battle, and discarded Williams cleaner rounds attested to the dislike by the troops.

Williams Cleaner Type I

Williams Cleaner Type III


CC Hunter

Thanks, that makes a lot more sense, I just knew it couldn't be Zinc. Thanks for the explaination on something I know very little about, other than it was a rifle cleaner bullet.