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  1. #1
    us
    417 Area Relic Hunters

    Sep 2005
    Springfield, Missouri
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    1780 button found. Need ID help. Tsgman

    I dug this a couple of feet from a dropped 3 ringer. This area has produced many bullets over the years but subdivisions and new construction have just about swallowed it entirely. This spot was s Union camp back in the day and I dug all the usual camp items but this button is a little strange since it appears to be Austrian? The crest on it from Maria Theresa Thaler. She was the Austo-Hungarian Empress 1740-1780. It says BURG CO TYR 1780 X ARCHID AUST DUX. The button I found is bent up but you can read it plainly. The only info I have found was a exact duplicate on E-bay. If anyone has any other info I would appreciate it. Thanks Tsgman
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  3. #2
    Charter Member

    May 2005
    6,381
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    Re: 1780 button found. Need ID help. Tsgman

    Source: http://www.theresia.name/en/sothers.html

    "Another class of coins or tokens resembling Maria Theresia Talers are rather cheap, privately made coinages or castings. Common use is in cheap brooches or for buttons, or for counter or play money use. Material is usually not silver, more likely some kind of copper alloy. Pieces may be silvered, gilded, or show traces of it. Diameter and weight is typically less than the original. Pieces will often show signs of removed handles, or still have handles or loops. One group of tokens closely resembles Maria Theresia Thalers, with only minor variations. Tokens in this group are commonly dated 1780."


  4. #3
    Charter Member
    us
    Feb 2005
    West Michigan
    A stick with a box at one end and a round thing on the other.
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    Re: 1780 button found. Need ID help. Tsgman

    Cool find!

    HH

  5. #4
    us
    417 Area Relic Hunters

    Sep 2005
    Springfield, Missouri
    Minelab 705, Fisher Gold Bug, MXT, Etrac, CTX 3030, GPX 5000, Troy Shadow, CZ20, Excal II, Tesoro Stingray, AT Pro.
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    Re: 1780 button found. Need ID help. Tsgman

    Quote Originally Posted by PBK
    Source: http://www.theresia.name/en/sothers.html

    "Another class of coins or tokens resembling Maria Theresia Talers are rather cheap, privately made coinages or castings. Common use is in cheap brooches or for buttons, or for counter or play money use. Material is usually not silver, more likely some kind of copper alloy. Pieces may be silvered, gilded, or show traces of it. Diameter and weight is typically less than the original. Pieces will often show signs of removed handles, or still have handles or loops. One group of tokens closely resembles Maria Theresia Thalers, with only minor variations. Tokens in this group are commonly dated 1780."
    Thanks PBK! I was hopeing you would help me. I was wondering about the part that says common use, brooches, buttons? I thought maybe it was off a Austrian Uniform? The original land owner from this spot's last name was Schultz. So I assumed he may have come from Austria? I cannot find any other info as to why it would be here in Missouri, or in the middle of a Civil War camp so that's my best guess. It may have been common for use on buttons but I do not think it is very common of a find? One thing is for sure I really appreciate your input. Tsgman
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  6. #5
    Charter Member

    May 2005
    6,381
    69 times

    Re: 1780 button found. Need ID help.

    Hey, Tsgman—

    It's not easy to estimate a date for these, because the same design has been used on buttons for quite a long time, and occasionally still is today. A lot of blazer buttons imitate the reverse of the Maria Theresa thaler in thin, die-stamped silvered/gilt brass or copper. The backs of the buttons are usually tinned iron or steel, and badly rusted or missing on dug ones.

    By the way, the coin itself has been struck as a trade coin for over 225 years— almost always with the date 1780, as in some parts of the world it's regarded as proof of authenticity. At least 800 million, and perhaps nearly a billion, Maria Theresa thalers have been issued from mints in various major cities throughout Europe, as well as in Bombay, India.


  7. #6

    Oct 2005
    middle america
    390

    Re: 1780 button found. Need ID help. Tsgman

    Very cool find.
    Support your local fire fighters.

  8. #7
    us
    Nov 2006
    Nixa, Missouri
    Xterra 705....GBSE...Vista 1000v2.....Vista Gold
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    Re: 1780 button found. Need ID help. Tsgman

    Don't know where you are hunting, but if it's in the SW MO area, you have to remember that the Union Army
    under Fremont or Sigel had German/Austrian troops under their command the 1st part of the war. The Ist
    action was at Carthage MO, so anywhere from St. Louis to Carthage, something like this could be found. There
    were also concentrations of Germans in the Mt Vernon MO area after the rebellion........
    Diggin' It In SW Missouri!!!!

  9. #8
    hu
    Gypsyheart~ Queen of Rust

    Nov 2005
    Ozarks
    12,689
    44 times

    Re: 1780 button found. Need ID help. Tsgman

    Thats really a great find Tgsman! WTG
    I go a great distance,while some are considering whether they will start today or tomorrow

  10. #9
    us
    417 Area Relic Hunters

    Sep 2005
    Springfield, Missouri
    Minelab 705, Fisher Gold Bug, MXT, Etrac, CTX 3030, GPX 5000, Troy Shadow, CZ20, Excal II, Tesoro Stingray, AT Pro.
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    Re: 1780 button found. Need ID help. Tsgman

    Quote Originally Posted by momule55
    Don't know where you are hunting, but if it's in the SW MO area, you have to remember that the Union Army
    under Fremont or Sigel had German/Austrian troops under their command the 1st part of the war. The Ist
    action was at Carthage MO, so anywhere from St. Louis to Carthage, something like this could be found. There
    were also concentrations of Germans in the Mt Vernon MO area after the rebellion........
    I thought about that possibility but I still do not know if it is even a military button or not? It looks like it is old enough. I know this camp was used by both armies at one time or another. I am returning to the site today with another guy from our 417 Relic Hunters club. You should check out our club sometime, we meet on the 1st Tuesday of every month at the New Beginnings Church just off Golden on Farm rd. 168 in Spfld. Mo. at 7pm.
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  11. #10
    us
    Mar 2006
    South Florida east coast.
    In the water Aquasound ,back up Aquasound,Fisher cz20,Minelab Excalibur 15 inch wot coil .
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    Re: 1780 button found. Need ID help. Tsgman

    cool
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  12. #11
    us
    Oct 2005
    Goose Creek, South Carolina
    Tesoro "Eldorado", Whites "Beach Hunter ID",
    3,626
    4 times
    Honorable Mentions (2)

    Re: 1780 button found. Need ID help. Tsgman

    Nice Piece, Which I could help, HH Art...

  13. #12
    417 Relic Hunters

    Apr 2005
    Nixa, Missouri
    Whites DFX
    157
    8 times

    Re: 1780 button found. Need ID help. Tsgman

    TSGMAN

    Thanks for bringing that to the club meeting the other night! Very cool find!

  14. #13
    us
    Sep 2006
    SW Missouri
    Whites DFX,Whites 6000 Di PRO SL
    223

    Re: 1780 button found. Need ID help. Tsgman

    Really cool find, tsgman.WTG!
    Tomorrow is the most important thing in life.Comes into us at midnight very clean.It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands.It hopes we've learnt something from yesterday.

  15. #14
    us
    417 Area Relic Hunters

    Sep 2005
    Springfield, Missouri
    Minelab 705, Fisher Gold Bug, MXT, Etrac, CTX 3030, GPX 5000, Troy Shadow, CZ20, Excal II, Tesoro Stingray, AT Pro.
    2,139
    4 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting

    Re: 1780 button found. Need ID help. Tsgman

    Thanks guy's! I appreiciate the help anyway. I am going to agree with MoMule and believe it came off one of Gen. Siegel's 900 German-Austrian troops that fought at Wilson's creek. Somewhat of a coincedence is my GG Grandfather C.B. Owen was the principal guide for them. This battle was confusing because both sides had some trouble identifing each other. Siegel saw a group of soldiers in blue colored uniforms coming toward him and thought they were the 1st Iowa. He quickly changed his mind after they fired a volley into the ranks and it turns out they were a CSA from Louisanna. My Grandfather was a guide and not enlisted with the Union at that time. It is legend in my family history that he picked the colors and kept them safe untill they returned to Springfield. Siegels men fled in all directions and also lost a cannon or two to the enemy. They say Siegel was back in Springfield having breakfast or a nap or something while Lyon was still fighting, ultimately loosing his life on the battlefield. Owen than accompanied the Federals to Rolla and enlisted. The Gov. of Missouri gave him the rank of 1ST Lt. upon his enlistment. Why he got that rank I am not sure. Possibly because he was the Capt. of his Home Guard unit. But maybe it was because of his actions at the battle? I do not know for sure. He attained the rank of Capt. of the Mo. 24th Vol. Inf. Co. D.
    Sorry for such a long post, just attempting to tie history togather when I dig it up. Tsgman
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