1780 button found. Need ID help. Tsgman

[tsgman]

I dug this a couple of feet from a dropped 3 ringer. This area has produced many bullets over the years but subdivisions and new construction have just about swallowed it entirely. This spot was s Union camp back in the day and I dug all the usual camp items but this button is a little strange since it appears to be Austrian? The crest on it from Maria Theresa Thaler. She was the Austo-Hungarian Empress 1740-1780. It says BURG CO TYR 1780 X ARCHID AUST DUX. The button I found is bent up but you can read it plainly. The only info I have found was a exact duplicate on E-bay. If anyone has any other info I would appreciate it. Thanks Tsgman

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

Agony and Death on a Gold Rush Steamer: The Disastrous Sinking of the Side-Wheeler Yankee Blade - Grab it through Amazon!

[PBK]

Source: http://www.theresia.name/en/sothers.html

"Another class of coins or tokens resembling Maria Theresia Talers are rather cheap, privately made coinages or castings. Common use is in cheap brooches or for buttons, or for counter or play money use. Material is usually not silver, more likely some kind of copper alloy. Pieces may be silvered, gilded, or show traces of it. Diameter and weight is typically less than the original. Pieces will often show signs of removed handles, or still have handles or loops. One group of tokens closely resembles Maria Theresia Thalers, with only minor variations. Tokens in this group are commonly dated 1780."

 

[lonewolfe]

Cool find!

HH

 

[tsgman]

Source: http://www.theresia.name/en/sothers.html

"Another class of coins or tokens resembling Maria Theresia Talers are rather cheap, privately made coinages or castings. Common use is in cheap brooches or for buttons, or for counter or play money use. Material is usually not silver, more likely some kind of copper alloy. Pieces may be silvered, gilded, or show traces of it. Diameter and weight is typically less than the original. Pieces will often show signs of removed handles, or still have handles or loops. One group of tokens closely resembles Maria Theresia Thalers, with only minor variations. Tokens in this group are commonly dated 1780."

Thanks PBK! I was hopeing you would help me. I was wondering about the part that says common use, brooches, buttons? I thought maybe it was off a Austrian Uniform? The original land owner from this spot's last name was Schultz. So I assumed he may have come from Austria? I cannot find any other info as to why it would be here in Missouri, or in the middle of a Civil War camp so that's my best guess. It may have been common for use on buttons but I do not think it is very common of a find? One thing is for sure I really appreciate your input. Tsgman

 

[PBK]

Re: 1780 button found. Need ID help.

Hey, Tsgman—

It's not easy to estimate a date for these, because the same design has been used on buttons for quite a long time, and occasionally still is today. A lot of blazer buttons imitate the reverse of the Maria Theresa thaler in thin, die-stamped silvered/gilt brass or copper. The backs of the buttons are usually tinned iron or steel, and badly rusted or missing on dug ones.

By the way, the coin itself has been struck as a trade coin for over 225 years— almost always with the date 1780, as in some parts of the world it's regarded as proof of authenticity. At least 800 million, and perhaps nearly a billion, Maria Theresa thalers have been issued from mints in various major cities throughout Europe, as well as in Bombay, India.

 

[eric in ks]

Very cool find.

 

[momule55]

Don't know where you are hunting, but if it's in the SW MO area, you have to remember that the Union Army
under Fremont or Sigel had German/Austrian troops under their command the 1st part of the war. The Ist
action was at Carthage MO, so anywhere from St. Louis to Carthage, something like this could be found. There
were also concentrations of Germans in the Mt Vernon MO area after the rebellion........

 

[Gypsy Heart]

Thats really a great find Tgsman! WTG

 

[tsgman]

Don't know where you are hunting, but if it's in the SW MO area, you have to remember that the Union Army
under Fremont or Sigel had German/Austrian troops under their command the 1st part of the war. The Ist
action was at Carthage MO, so anywhere from St. Louis to Carthage, something like this could be found. There
were also concentrations of Germans in the Mt Vernon MO area after the rebellion........

I thought about that possibility but I still do not know if it is even a military button or not? It looks like it is old enough. I know this camp was used by both armies at one time or another. I am returning to the site today with another guy from our 417 Relic Hunters club. You should check out our club sometime, we meet on the 1st Tuesday of every month at the New Beginnings Church just off Golden on Farm rd. 168 in Spfld. Mo. at 7pm.

 

[The Bulgarian]

cool

 

[Southcacalaky]

Nice Piece, Which I could help, HH Art...

 

[livetoplay804]

TSGMAN

Thanks for bringing that to the club meeting the other night! Very cool find!

 

[DigMO]

Really cool find, tsgman.WTG!

 

[tsgman]

Thanks guy's! I appreiciate the help anyway. I am going to agree with MoMule and believe it came off one of Gen. Siegel's 900 German-Austrian troops that fought at Wilson's creek. Somewhat of a coincedence is my GG Grandfather C.B. Owen was the principal guide for them. This battle was confusing because both sides had some trouble identifing each other. Siegel saw a group of soldiers in blue colored uniforms coming toward him and thought they were the 1st Iowa. He quickly changed his mind after they fired a volley into the ranks and it turns out they were a CSA from Louisanna. My Grandfather was a guide and not enlisted with the Union at that time. It is legend in my family history that he picked the colors and kept them safe untill they returned to Springfield. Siegels men fled in all directions and also lost a cannon or two to the enemy. They say Siegel was back in Springfield having breakfast or a nap or something while Lyon was still fighting, ultimately loosing his life on the battlefield. Owen than accompanied the Federals to Rolla and enlisted. The Gov. of Missouri gave him the rank of 1ST Lt. upon his enlistment. Why he got that rank I am not sure. Possibly because he was the Capt. of his Home Guard unit. But maybe it was because of his actions at the battle? I do not know for sure. He attained the rank of Capt. of the Mo. 24th Vol. Inf. Co. D.
Sorry for such a long post, just attempting to tie history togather when I dig it up. Tsgman