Need some assistance on how to properly clean a mid-1600s London token

[Bill D. (VA)]

A while back I found this 27mm brass penny token issued by Edward Jarvis around 1670 in an early trash pit here in southeast Va. Jarvis was the landlord of The George Tavern located in Cheapside, a section of London. On the obverse is depicted St. George on horseback slaying the dragon with the legend "EDWARD IARVIS AT THE GEORGE". On the reverse is an elaborate monogram in the center, with the legend "IN CHEAPSIDE MARKETT" on the periphery. Below are pics of the actual recovered token along with a more detailed pic of a better grade example. Mine has a nice gray patina, but so far I've only used dry cleaning methods. However, it looks like this token could be cleaned a bit more to improve its appearance and details, but I'm a little hesitant as I certainly don't want to damage it. It was suggested previously that a warm peroxide bath might do the trick, but I haven't had much success with that method on coppers. I also have some blue ribbon coin cleaner which is by far the best product I've ever used on old coppers, but not sure how it would do on brass. Anyway, I'm totally open to suggestions at this point, and hopefully I can find a way that I feel confident about, or I'll just leave as is. Thanks for any input.

 

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[bill from lachine]

Bill,

It might be worth checking with Iron Patch for his input....he's pretty knowledgeable when it comes to cleaning coins and buttons.

Regards + HH

Bill

 

[collector01]

How about the mineral oil treatment. I've just started using it after seeing the results on here. Seems very mild compared to peroxide wich I won't use again. But does take longer. Looks good the way it is but does look like it can clean up some more. Nice find.

 

[Bill D. (VA)]

How about the mineral oil treatment. I've just started using it after seeing the results on here. Seems very mild compared to peroxide wich I won't use again. But does take longer. Looks good the way it is but does look like it can clean up some more. Nice find.

I've tried mineral oil on copper coins, and it tends to darken them too much. Not sure how it'll work on brass. But I generally use it to provide a protective coating, not to clean. How do you use it?

 

[robfinds]

Nice find Bill. The token is in good condition. My advice is don't clean. The other token, looks like it's come out of the river Thames mud. They come out of the mud looking like that, it's probably not been cleaned at all.

Robert.

 

[Ahab8]

Bill,

It might be worth checking with Iron Patch for his input....he's pretty knowledgeable when it comes to cleaning coins and buttons.

Regards + HH

Bill

Never trust a man in a spandex unitard

 

[CASPER-2]

I would not clean
thing is you can clean any time you want
but if you clean and mess it up - you cant put it back
I like my finds with that old patina - it show its age
do you want it to look like you found at a yard sale instead

 

[bill from lachine]

Ahab,

Thanks for the chuckles....lol.

Regards + HH

Bill

Never trust a man in a spandex unitard

 

[Ahab8]

Ahab,

Thanks for the chuckles....lol.

Regards + HH

Bill

Bill the reason I'm able to joke is because I respect him so much(don't tell him that). But honestly when I found the tree coin he walked me through how to clean it and I was beyond psyched with the results. Only problem is that silver is a lot easier to deal with then copper or brass.

 

[pepperj]

It a hard one to say Bill, I've had really good result using HP but the coinage isn't as old and mainly coppers. There's the option of toothpick and a very gentle cleaning. I sort of like it the way it is, but I can see where a little touch up would bring out the detail.

 

[mangum]

Bill, I have been cleaning quite a few of my finds with ammonia lately. It doesn't take long at all to work. Unless you leave it in for a long time it won't over clean. (Only a few minutes) You can see it work immediately then brush the crud off with a toothbrush. A buddy of mine uses this on most all of his relics & has great results (especially on coppers). It works great on gilt buttons as well. I believe Relic Bob uses this method a lot. I used to only use the dry method but it just takes so long to clean everything that way. I have tried hydrogen peroxide a few times & always get terrible results. I hate the way it darkens the coins as well. Good luck!

 

[mangum]

Here are a few of his finds he has cleaned using ammonia:

 

[Bill D. (VA)]

It a hard one to say Bill, I've had really good result using HP but the coinage isn't as old and mainly coppers. There's the option of toothpick and a very gentle cleaning. I sort of like it the way it is, but I can see where a little touch up would bring out the detail.

I totally agree, and not sure the risk is worth the reward.

 

[Iron Patch]

Tough call. Peroxide doesn't tend to discolor a coin much so I'd probably stand it on edge and soak maybe 10-20% on one of the corroded areas and see how it does.

 

[Ahab8]

Bill first off I think it looks pretty darned good for how old it is. The biggest issue with that particular piece is that there's no contrast in color to bring out the details. The normal green patina is sometimes the only thing that allows detail to pop. This is one that is a good example of that. I kind of messed around with it to see if I could make LIBERTY pop. Without the green it would never stand out.

Yours looks pretty solid and I don't believe the hp will really hurt it. But I would hate to recommend that and have it come out poorly.

 

[Silver Searcher]

Some things are just better left, not much else you can do to that, perhaps the tooth pick as mentioned by pepperj . Seal it and keep a eye on it.

SS

 

[Silver Searcher]

Bill first off I think it looks pretty darned good for how old it is. The biggest issue with that particular piece is that there's no contrast in color to bring out the details. The normal green patina is sometimes the only thing that allows detail to pop. This is one that is a good example of that. I kind of messed around with it to see if I could make LIBERTY pop. Without the green it would never stand out.
View attachment 1109807
Yours looks pretty solid and I don't believe the hp will really hurt it. But I would hate to recommend that and have it come out poorly.

The green is not patina, but a light case of bronze disease .

SS

 

[dirtlooter]

You don't always pay a great deal attention to exactly how the coins and things are cleaned until you find something and then you are all ears, especially if you have ruined something. I had a toasted wheatie and because it was just a wheatie, I believe I tried electrolysis on it and it seems like I finished ruining it. there is always a lot of free advice out there but there are those who are very respected and experienced at what and how to do it with the valuable finds. I hope for the best decision for your find, it is a really cool one.

 

[Bill D. (VA)]

Bill, I have been cleaning quite a few of my finds with ammonia lately. It doesn't take long at all to work. Unless you leave it in for a long time it won't over clean. (Only a few minutes) You can see it work immediately then brush the crud off with a toothbrush. A buddy of mine uses this on most all of his relics & has great results (especially on coppers). It works great on gilt buttons as well. I believe Relic Bob uses this method a lot. I used to only use the dry method but it just takes so long to clean everything that way. I have tried hydrogen peroxide a few times & always get terrible results. I hate the way it darkens the coins as well. Good luck!

I may have to try that sometime Josh, but certainly not with a unique find like this. Might practice on an old copper first, but based on the input I'm receiving I think I'm gonna leave the token as is, which I was leaning toward anyway. Thanks for the info.

 

[Bill D. (VA)]

Bill first off I think it looks pretty darned good for how old it is. The biggest issue with that particular piece is that there's no contrast in color to bring out the details. The normal green patina is sometimes the only thing that allows detail to pop. This is one that is a good example of that. I kind of messed around with it to see if I could make LIBERTY pop. Without the green it would never stand out.
View attachment 1109807
Yours looks pretty solid and I don't believe the hp will really hurt it. But I would hate to recommend that and have it come out poorly.

I definitely agree with your no contrast comment Abe, but I think I'm not going to chance doing anything with it and will leave as is. That gray look isn't half bad anyway.