Nice toy cannon

[colonialct]

This is brass toy cannon that I dug yesterday.

 

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[colonialct]

This is my first year detecting and have been doing pretty good. So far 17 large cents, 2 half cents, half reale,over 250 colonial buttons, complete colonial shoe buckle and much much more. Do your research it pays off. Good luck

 

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[ARC]

This is my first year detecting and have been doing pretty good. So far 17 large cents, 2 half cents, half reale,over 250 colonial buttons, complete colonial shoe buckle and much much more. Do your research it pays off. Good luck

Yes you are.
You are fortunate to be able to detect such areas which contain these items.

Good luck with your future finds and be sure to post em up.

 

[CRUSADER]

UPDATE;

I have now read the book on these & as I suspected, this will be hard to date accurately.
Quote;
''Precise dating is generally impossible because any potentially diagnostic features are too stylized and there is also the distanct probability that some of the apparently 'early' pieces are later versions produced in a historic style''

Although yours is similar to a type 3 design 1 (no. 1.5, page 82) which they date to circa 1700, it has some differences which I spotted straight away. The extra band towards the front & the thick band in the middle is not uniformly spaced from the trunnions. Also the book example has a incised line around the base ring. So hardly a match.
My gut told me 19th C (the iron wheels bothers me), & although this can't be ruled out, on probability terms most of these were produced in the 18th C, so I'm willing to accept there is a good chance its 18th C & for display purposes that would be a fair label. To narrow it any further than 18th C, would need an expert opinion.

BIG CONGRATS & thanks for encouraging me to get another great book. I needed it for other items but never seen it this cheap until now.

PS. I voted banner on this one, as far as I can tell there are less than 10 known complete cannon & carriage still in exsistence. Not sure if any non-dug examples exist but the recent book doesn't reference any & I've never seen any up for sale.

 

[colonialct]

I thank you for the research you"ve done and would love to see a picture of the example in the book, if you get a chance.

 

[mspence]

Very very cool find.

 

[ARC]

UPDATE;

I have now read the book on these & as I suspected, this will be hard to date accurately.
Quote;
''Precise dating is generally impossible because any potentially diagnostic features are too stylized and there is also the distanct probability that some of the apparently 'early' pieces are later versions produced in a historic style''

Although yours is similar to a type 3 design 1 (no. 1.5, page 82) which they date to circa 1700, it has some differences which I spotted straight away. The extra band towards the front & the thick band in the middle is not uniformly spaced from the trunnions. Also the book example has a incised line around the base ring. So hardly a match.
My gut told me 19th C (the iron wheels bother me), & although this can't be ruled out, on probability terms most of these were produced in the 18th C, so I'm willing to accept there is a good chance its 18th C & for display purposes that would be a fair label. To narrow it any further than 18th C, would need an expert opinion.

BIG CONGRATS & thanks for encouraging me to get another great book. I needed it for other items but never seen it this cheap until now.

PS. I voted banner on this one, as far as I can tell there are less than 10 known complete cannon & carriage still in exsistence. Not sure if any non-dug examples exist but the recent book doesn't reference any & I've never seen any up for sale.

I told ya :P
good work Cruz.
I knew this was a killer killer piece the minute I saw it.
I too claim this as a SUPER BANNER ! heh

COLONIALCT - Great first beginnings and if I were you I would get back to the exact spot that cannon surfaced and work it to death.

 

[CRUSADER]

I told ya :P
good work Cruz.
I knew this was a killer killer piece the minute I saw it.
I too claim this as a SUPER BANNER ! heh

COLONIALCT - Great first beginnings and if I were you I would get back to the exact spot that cannon surfaced and work it to death.

OK, I might be wrong, infact I hope I am, but...........

 

[colonialct]

...................... The suspense is killing me

 

[CRUSADER]

...................... The suspense is killing me

Well, it may kill you for some years, thats detecting..........

 

[Scrappy]

I'm glad I saw this, and this is a banner find. I'm sending a vote in. Congrats on an exceedingly rare and complete find.

Steve

 

[CRUSADER]

I thank you for the research you"ve done and would love to see a picture of the example in the book, if you get a chance.

See the differences to your closest match. Who knows these variants might not matter at all for the date.(Maybe just too many variants out there & all the ones I've seen from the 18th C{including on both UK databases} & all the book examples have less bands) The issue is they produced these from the late 16th C/17th C to present. Always been propular (kids & adults like these mini cannons), but not always functional.

 

[colonialct]

The closet that I found was the one we posted earlier https://finds.org.uk/images/stephaniesmith/medium/SUSS-FBBBB0ToyCannon.jpg . The length and width match.

 

[gunsil]

Oh and one more thing...
I want to show you something you may find very interesting...

This cannon... SIMILIAR to yours...
Was found on the bottom of the ocean...

It is 300 years old.

View attachment 1243781

Sorry AARC, the cannon you show was made by J E Stevens Manufacturing between late 1800s and early 1900s. They came in about seven sizes and I have most of them. No way is it 300 years old, and it is the most common of the plethora of small cannons made in the late 1800s-early 1900s here in the US. They can be loaded and shot as small "fourth of July" cannons. I believe the OP's cannon is also a late 1800s cannon. Also AARC the number of spokes is indicative of nothing except a clue to the manufacturer of the piece. I have at least fifty of these small shootable cannons from this time period by different manufacturers. I'll try to photograph some of them tomorrow and you will see the Stevens are exactly the same as the one you posted. Stevens, Shimer, and Kilgore are several of the companies making these little cannons in the time frame I refer to.

 

[CRUSADER]

The closet that I found was the one we posted earlier https://finds.org.uk/images/stephaniesmith/medium/SUSS-FBBBB0ToyCannon.jpg . The length and width match. View attachment 1246554

Yeap, forgot sorry, that is the only match on the database, its just the dating of them by the PAS thats the issue now.

 

[CRUSADER]

Sorry AARC, the cannon you show was made by J E Stevens Manufacturing between late 1800s and early 1900s. They came in about seven sizes and I have most of them. No way is it 300 years old, and it is the most common of the plethora of small cannons made in the late 1800s-early 1900s here in the US. They can be loaded and shot as small "fourth of July" cannons. I believe the OP's cannon is also a late 1800s cannon. Also AARC the number of spokes is indicative of nothing except a clue to the manufacturer of the piece. I have at least fifty of these small shootable cannons from this time period by different manufacturers. I'll try to photograph some of them tomorrow and you will see the Stevens are exactly the same as the one you posted. Stevens, Shimer, and Kilgore are several of the companies making these little cannons in the time frame I refer to.

He got the wrong picture to start with & corrected it further down.

Having said that, you seem to agree with my first gut feeling on this late 19th C?

 

[colonialct]

Though I have found older relics on the site, most of them seem to be mid to late 1800's - so I would believe it to be from that era.

 

[gunsil]

Yes Cru, I believe your gut feeling was correct, late 1800s into the early 1900s on colonialct's find. The second one AARC shows is a non-firing toy or souvenir cannon. Here in the US there are many souvenir cannons made that are sold in the tourist shops at old fort sites such as Ticonderoga or other forts and they are never functional and have been made for at least sixty years and likely longer. I bought one at Ticonderoga circa 1955 with a brass barrel and iron ship or fort type carriage. We have no sun here today to get good pics of my collection of fireable late 1800s-early 1900s US made cannons with 3"-8" barrels but I will try to bet a group photo of some inside.

Colonialct I think you could actually still fire your cool find. Clean out the bore and blow through the barrel and see if the air comes out the touch hole. Then close the touch hole off with a finger and blow in the muzzle again. If no air escapes around the trunion area it was made to take a small black powder load with a paper wad. The brass barreled ones are fairly safe to fire, but the cast iron ones are not if they are dug relics. The powder from a .22 long rifle cartridge and a firecracker fuse with a small wad of paper will do the trick. During the same time frame other small cannons were made that had break open breeches that one would insert a firecracker in the breech and close the breech with the fuse sticking up from a small slot made for that purpose. They made a really cool and noisy toy and it is a sad thing that kids cannot enjoy this type of fun in our modern times. If you or a friend are black powder enthusiasts you can load a small amount of 3F black powder in your little cannon, it is great fun to see them blow a little flame out the muzzle and hear the little blast!! Under no circumstances use modern smokeless powder in these little beauties!!

 

[gunsil]

Here are some small cannons from my collection, most are from the late 1800s-early1900s. I have fired many or most of them. The last two pics are JE Stevens cannons in the foreground. Not enough light for better pics today.