My today's dowsing finds.

[boogeyman]

This might be inclined to lead someone to believe that the electricity running through the lines had something to do with it. Versus metal with no electricity running through it would therefore not have the same set of factors. Eh ? But I have never yet met a dowser yet , who would say that it works "only for electrical lines". They will invariably say it works for a myriad of other things: Gold , silver, water, etc.... (even paper money, gems, etc...?).

So with that understanding out on the table, I don't see how someone *couldn't* find landmines .

Do your homework Tom! There's numerous articles out there about Marines in Nam using rods to locate mines & booby traps. If memory serves me one of the treasure mags had an article about a guy in his unit that was dowsing them. You know one of those how I got into treasure hunting articles. There's possibly hundreds of accounts of dowsing from the Spanish up to todays time if you look. There are possibly other accounts from other places, but my knowledge isn't as vast as yours. I assume you have a pretty good grip on the Spanish expeditions. Do you really think they would use dowsers as long as they did / have if it was an impossible feat?

Your bowling ball example is totally ridiculous. I actually screen grabbed it (hope you don't mind) to show a couple buddies. With that as an example, if I turned on my radio the radio stations antenna should come flying across space and stick to my radio? Again, I'll ask my questions "Why doesn't dowsing work? Can you prove it doesn't work?" Ok, I've asked for the umpteenth time. Patiently waiting for a deflection or no answer.

Tom, it doesn't matter. We could all band together fill a library with documentation provide an army of dowsers to test and a dumptruck full of finds and you'd still be sitting in the middle of it all saying "It just can't be".

 

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[Tom_in_CA]

.....Question for the skeptics. You have claimed that dowsers are trained to look at flat ground and tell where a buried coin is with their naked eyes. I certainly don't know. Does anyone know how the ground, with grass growing on it would look like where a coin is buried?

The ability by a long-time md'r to visually scan a field, and deduce "the most likely places", is not that they "see coins". Of course the coins are obscured and not seen. What we are referring to is the experience to guess where the most yester-year people traffic occurred. Ie.: the most logical place that fumble fingers losses would occur. Eg.: under the bleachers, or at 1st base where the runners slide, etc...

And I've often wondered if a dowser isn't simply doing the same thing: Subconsciously tilting his own rods towards "the most likely places", in the same fashion. So if you (or anyone even w/o rods) suspects a cache, and walks out the suspect place, you're bound to see an "out of place tree, or some such visual marker that a cache-hider might have used. So they subconsciously tilt towards that ? Even though, in their mind, they are holding them perfectly still and flat.

If this is the right explanation, then it actually doesn't favor dowsing. It simply means the rods did nothing at all . And an experienced md'r / TH'r could do the same thing, by simply looking at the lay-of-the-land, and figuring "the most likely place to start"

 

[Tom_in_CA]

.... There's numerous articles out there about Marines in Nam using rods to locate mines & booby traps..... Do you really think they would use dowsers as long as they did / have if it was an impossible feat?.....

Hi boogeyman. Well let's just cut to the chase: There's not only those stories (which, yes I've heard of), but also scores of other "testimonials" of guys that claim to have found stuff. I have no doubt. And people that claim to have talked to the dead via seances. And testimonies in history of how natives could control the weather by throwing virgins into volcanoes. But none of these "testimonies" takes into account the double-blind test of "more plausible explanations".

....Your bowling ball example is totally ridiculouse ....

Not sure how you can say that. It is the logical extension test of the dowsers explanation of "signals" and "attraction". It actually GRANTS YOU that such a "signal" or "attraction" exists. But points out that to whatever extent this could be, it is unfortunately acted upon by a great force/attraction: Gravity. Those rods will always respond to gravity. Not to the coin or jar of coins a foot-ball field (or even 1 ft.) away.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Re.: post #62, re.: the "subconscious tilting" I refer to there. For anyone who doubts that, look up "ideomotor effect" on google definitions.

And actually, many dowsers do not deny that's exactly what's at play. But say that their ability works WITH the ideomotor effect to arrive at the end results. Hmm, well if they acknowledge subconscious tilting (because of an uncanny feel in their th'ing knowledge of "most likely spots"), then that simply means that the rods are doing nothing. They can simply walk out to the field, and mentally assess the "most likely spot".

In the same way a buddy of mine who is amongst the top nugget shooters in CA: He started when md'ing for nuggets was in its infancy. People back then using 6000Ds in all-metal mode, since there WAS not nugget specialty machines on the market yet. By now, (35+ yrs. later), he is so proficient, that he can walk out to any nugget region (creek bed, canyon, meadow, tailings piles, etc...) and probably deduce the most-likely-place, simply by years of experience.

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

Question for the skeptics. You have claimed that dowsers are trained to look at flat ground and tell where a buried coin is with their naked eyes. I certainly don't know how that is done or what to look for. Does anyone know how the ground, with grass growing on it would look like where a coin is buried?

I'm a skeptic but I don't think you can "see" buried coins. That would be as implausible as dowsing. I think you simply dig until you find something.

Here is a single lunch hour with a middling detector at a town park next to where I used to work.

Kudos you are finding things. But you could bypass the sticks and do as well for time spent with just a shovel in most random spots.

 

[aarthrj3811]

"ideomotor effect"
Gee Tom. Welcome to our century. Do you know that "ideomotor effect" is now being taught to train police 0fficers to improve driving skills. The Skeptics dictionary had been proved wrong...Art

 

[Tom_in_CA]

..... The Skeptics dictionary had been proved wrong...Art

Huh ? I lost ya bro. Can you clarify ? I'm agreeing with the effect (whether it be for dowsing rods, or driving skills, etc...). That's it's merely subconscious tilting (combined with gravity). NOT some "attraction" or "signal" or "antenna". So ... where are we in disagreement ?

I'm merely pointing out that this simply discredits dowsing, in that it means you don't even need "rods". It's simply subconscious intuition. So why not simply walk out to a pasture (or wherever you are TH'ing) and simply eyeball the landscape, decide the "most likely areas", and then turn on your detector to "pinpoint" ?

Oh, and be aware, that by mutually acknowledging the ideomotor effect, you will find yourself at odds with many in your camp, that believe there's some sort of "attraction", and that the rods are necessary, etc... (ie.: that there's something scientifically physical going on, albeit "undiscovered" science). And further still, many advocates will go further and say there's something spiritual going on (such that it requires "belief", and so forth).

So I'm not sure what you're driving at.

 

[aarthrj3811]

Huh ? I lost ya bro. Can you clarify ? I'm agreeing with the effect (whether it be for dowsing rods, or driving skills, etc...). That's it's merely subconscious tilting (combined with gravity). NOT some "attraction" or "signal" or "antenna". So ... where are we in disagreement ?

No...I am saying that it can be a taught skill just like many things that we teach ourselves to do without thinking about it...Art

When you are driving down a street and someone walks into the street you don’t think. you hit the brakes. You put your hand on a hot stove and pull it off without having to think

 

[Tom_in_CA]

No...I am saying that it can be a taught skill just like many things that we teach ourselves to do without thinking about it....

But what is the "it" that you refer to above ? I can understand the "it" of breaking the car-brakess for pedestrians. And I can understand the "it" of pulling your hand off a hot stove. But what is the "it" of dowsing ?

In the 2 examples you've given (hot stoves and the timing of when your eyes see a pedestrian), there is a trail of scientific explanation of things like 1) high school driver's education class, 2) our vision which enables us to see things (like pedestrians), 3) our muscles that control our feet which press the brake pedal, 4) the F you will get in driver's ed. class for failing, which makes mom & dad mad, blah blah .. And 5) the pain that results from the hot stove burning you.

However, I find nothing of the sort for dowsing. If you meant the mental intuition of "most likely places", YES, I can understand that. But then we're back to the start, where this simply discredits dowsing. So I don't get it.

 

[aarthrj3811]

In the 2 examples you've given (hot stoves and the timing of when your eyes see a pedestrian)

So your eyes put on the brakes
t

here is a trail of scientific explanation of things like 1) high school driver's education class, 2) our vision which enables us to see things (like pedestrians),

Yes they do

3) our muscles that control our feet which press the brake pedal,

Did you have to tell the muscles to do it or did they just apply the brakes

4

) the F you will get in driver's ed. class for failing, which makes mom & dad mad, blah blah

Never had that happen

.. And 5) the pain that results from the hot stove burning you.

Do you have to think before you pull your hand off

There are hundreds of things your brain has been taught to do aromatically.. Art

 

[tinpan]

"ideomotor effect"
Gee Tom. Welcome to our century. Do you know that "ideomotor effect" is now being taught to train police 0fficers to improve driving skills. The Skeptics dictionary had been proved wrong...Art

Hi , so police are trained to use Ouija Boards to solve crimes ? TP

 

[Tom_in_CA]

....
There are hundreds of things your brain has been taught to do aromatically.. Art

Right. And all of those "hundreds of things" are extensions/actions of ourselves . In the subconscious state like you point out (ie.: didn't have to "think" of it). But in this case of dowsing, the rods are inanimate objects. They are not living thinking things like human beings.

If you acknowledge that , like the brake pedal, we "control" the rods (albeit "without thinking" or "subconscious"), then this just dis-proves dowsing rods. They aren't needed. It's merely your "gut hunch" or "mental intuition". Then why can't anyone (as already happens routinely for md'rs, fishermen, rockhounds, etc...) just walk out to the same place, and figure "hmmm, over there looks likely" ?

And remember: If you say the rods have nothing to do with it [as it seems you'd have to be admitting with your current stance], and that there's no "attraction" or "science" or "signal" or "antenna" [as your current stance admits by default], then you have just distanced yourself from most all other camps of dowsers.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Hi , so police are trained to use Ouija Boards to solve crimes ? TP

This is a genius observation. For those dowsers that agree that it's ideomotor effect (and launch into elaborate details of how this effect presents itself in every-day life), then they would have utterly no reason to explain why ouiji boards can't also accomplish finding abducted children, solving crimes, etc.... Yet I just double dare any LEO agency to start utilizing those, and see the public's outcry. What's next? Seances ? reading bird entrails ?

 

[Tom_in_CA]

An observation: there seems to be 3 main camps of opinions on how dowsing works:

a) Ideomotor effect (just our hunches subconsciously tilting the rods and gravity does the rest), or

b) actual attraction between the rod to the object in some, as-of-yet , un-discovered science, to

3) full blow spiritual connotations. Where you actually ask the rods questions, for example (as if there were spooks in them that could hear you, etc...)

Yet strangely, when you go to look up the "theory of how metal detectors work", you find a single universally agreed upon reason. And blueprint schematics showing how the resulting "beep" occurs, etc.... There is no "difference of opinion" on how detectors work.

 

[TommyB]

What about Tea Leaves? What / How do they tell you something?

 

[Tom_in_CA]

What about Tea Leaves? What / How do they tell you something?

The ideomotor effect, perhaps ? If so, then there's no reason why those wouldn't work ? To subconsciously bring out the intuitions that LEO detectives have deep down, that they need to "tap" ?

And the ONLY reason that LEO's don't avail themselves of these things (to solve crimes, etc...) is that they are simply close-minded. eh ?

 

[fmrUSMC_0844]

My father in law uses dowsing rods to find wells. it works. I have seen him do it. I had a friend hide a Morgan Silver Dollar in my yard and I looked for it with dowsing rods. I found it. I have no idea how it works but I believe it does. As we can all see in this thread there are skeptics. If you dont believe what you are seeing, why even comment? Just because someone doesnt believe in it doesnt mean they have to pick it apart from someone who believes in it and enjoys doing that. Whoa!! Thats a though!! Maybe he ENJOYS it and ENJOYS showing people what he finds while dowsing. Well, until he gets picked apart from doing what he ENJOYS from nay sayers that want to prove hime wrong saying it doesnt work.

I say nice finds and keep at it. I have a set of rods myself and use them every once in a while. Sometimes I find things, sometimes I dont. Just like with my metal detector.

Tom, I enjoy reading your comments, but do you ever wonder if you over think things a little too much?

 

[aarthrj3811]

Hi , so police are trained to use Ouija Boards to solve crimes ? TP

Sorry..that’s not what I said. They are taught to use Ideomotor response to control the cars.
Years ago I broke some toes on my left foot. Up until that time I did not know that I always step down steps with my left foot. So I had to retrained l my mind to automatically go down with my right foot. No big deal...

Right. And all of those "hundreds of things" are extensions/actions of ourselves . In the subconscious state like you point out (ie.: didn't have to "think" of it). But in this case of dowsing, the rods are inanimate objects. They are not living thinking things like human beings.

Your right. They are just a tool and like most tools using them is just learning ..

b) actual attraction between the rod to the object in some, as-of-yet , un-discovered science, to

How can you call dowsing an un-discovered science?. Have there been dowsers for over 800 years?

 

[tinpan]

This is a genius observation. For those dowsers that agree that it's ideomotor effect (and launch into elaborate details of how this effect presents itself in every-day life), then they would have utterly no reason to explain why ouiji boards can't also accomplish finding abducted children, solving crimes, etc.... Yet I just double dare any LEO agency to start utilizing those, and see the public's outcry. What's next? Seances ? reading bird entrails ?

Hi Tom , Doysers are renown for random selection of texts from numerous whole books to give themselves some sort of credibility .Just like Otto Rahn and the Nazi Ahnenerbe . TP

 

[aarthrj3811]

My father in law uses dowsing rods to find wells. it works. I have seen him do it. I had a friend hide a Morgan Silver Dollar in my yard and I looked for it with dowsing rods. I found it. I have no idea how it works but I believe it does. As we can all see in this thread there are skeptics. If you dont believe what you are seeing, why even comment? Just because someone doesnt believe in it doesnt mean they have to pick it apart from someone who believes in it and enjoys doing that. Whoa!! Thats a though!! Maybe he ENJOYS it and ENJOYS showing people what he finds while dowsing. Well, until he gets picked apart from doing what he ENJOYS from nay sayers that want to prove hime wrong saying it doesnt work.

I have been enjoying Dowsing for a lot of years. The best and least expensive hobby I have ever hasd