Charles II 1660's silver button. Few more relics. Great hunt in a great company.

[Aureus]

Hi everyone,

Just wanted to show the best finds from this week ends hunt. Had a nice visit from Ken Z.K. from Vermont. We managed to hit a few sites near Montreal with very good results.

Firstly, my favorite and the most unusual find. By far the oldest button or cuff link find since I started detecting and the very first silver one. When I found it on the hunt with Ken I was 100% sure it was a pretty beat and unusual pewter button. Only after getting home and getting it out of the box noticed that the crust dried and flaked away revealing a beautiful silver button with crown and two hurts. With the help from some friends on Treasurenet managed to ID it to the wedding of Charles II of England to Catherine of Braganza in 1662 An awesome and unexpected find! Really excited about it.

Here are some links to the British archaeological records site.
https://finds.org.uk/database/artefacts/record/id/715312

https://finds.org.uk/database/artefacts/record/id/616228

https://finds.org.uk/database/artefacts/record/id/530118


Note: Although multiple British archaeological records mention the possible association to the Charles II wedding there's some debate over the this connection.

Button or cuff link as found and after a light cleaning. Didn't clean the back part of it.




An other button found a day before on an other permission was a beautiful Victorian (I would guess late 1830's) 65th Regiment of foot. Still has it's gold gilding. Stunning design that I haven't seen before.



Than a very nice Royal Sappers and miners 1812 button. Great condition.



And a large artillery button I guess from 1830's



Than an other find on the hunt with Ken. What looks to be a shoe buckle. Never found one of that design and shape.







Lots of more finds that I don't have the time to post at this moment (really tired after 24 hours of hunts in 2 days)

Thanks for the comments.



Reference : Darch, E (2015) "NMS-79E4FB: A POST MEDIEVAL CUFF LINK" Web page available at: https://finds.org.uk/database/artefacts/record/id/715312 [Accessed: May 22, 2017 04:57:27 AM]

 

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[gwdigger]

Here's a set that was found in Maryland on an 18th century site. I know of at least one other set found in a woods in Virginia but the guy hasn't given up any info about the site. So don;t know the date range there.

Diagnostic Artifacts - Small Finds

The only thing I can definitively say about them is how nice one would look in my collection. lol

 

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[Aureus]

Here's a set that was found in Maryland on an 18th century site. I know of at least one other set found in a woods in Virginia but the guy hasn't given up any info about the site. So don;t know the date range there.

Diagnostic Artifacts - Small Finds

The only thing I can definitively say about them is how nice one would look in my collection. lol

That's a very interesting link. Thank you! Never seen a copper alloy example.

 

[Aureus]

I love it when the plot thickens! Worthy of debate, this.

Such a great time and find(s) regardless. Worth every mosquito bite (realized last night that they were able to get through a 1mm glove...about 20 times! Mutant Canadian mosquitoes!!)

Yes, a very nice couple of hunts and awesome finds! And I told you about those Liberal Canadian mosquitoes. Their motto is '' If you have too much blood make larger veins not thicker gloves''.

 

[CRUSADER]

Thanks man. I always appreciate your comments and expertise. But I'm wondering how can all of the similar finds could be misdated by PAS. I understand the ''may'' part which mentions the possible association to the wedding of Charles and Catherine. But all of the British records I consulted dated it to circa late 17th century. I don't understand how all of them could have made the same error concerning the construction and the style of the 17th century item versus one from the 18th century.

Thanks again.

I do, because they don't specialise. Your welcome to believe whatever you like. Mistakes by the British Museum are more common than you know.

Back to the 65th, I'm thinking 1821-31. But its worth further research as its not one I've seen. I think that was your find of the day not the cuff-link which are a far more common find.

 

[CRUSADER]

17thC Charles II marriage commemoration silver buttons - a number of these are on display at Colchester museum as they were declared treasure.

Silverbuttons​

Seen loads declared, doen't mean its right.

 

[Aureus]

It's interesting to see all the debate about the date and the meaning of the cufflink. That's what I like about the detecting. Not only the finding part but also the researching and the sharing of different ideas and theories with people as passionate about history as I am.

If I could give my humble opinion I personally find it unusual that a number of examples of this early Royal wedding "memorabilia" are found on both sides of the Atlantic. In my view the two hearts and the crown don't necessarily represent Royal union. I know that in old Christian Orthodox tradition the crowns are held over the heads of the newly wed representing the union under God. Those things might as well be a traditional wedding present for the groom in England and the New World during the Colonial period.

Just an opinion.

 

[CRUSADER]

It's interesting to see all the debate about the date and the meaning of the cufflink. That's what I like about the detecting. Not only the finding part but also the researching and the sharing of different ideas and theories with people as passionate about history as I am.

If I could give my humble opinion I personally find it unusual that a number of examples of this early Royal wedding "memorabilia" are found on both sides of the Atlantic. In my view the two hearts and the crown don't necessarily represent Royal union. I know that in old Christian Orthodox tradition the crowns are held over the heads of the newly wed representing the union under God. Those things might as well be a traditional wedding present for the groom in England and the New World during the Colonial period.

Just an opinion.

Exactly. It's one interpretation, that I think started in a book & has gathered steam. The more the mistake (my opinion) is repeated the 'truer' it seems. There are loads of these in various patterns, so they were pretty popular over a reasonable amount of time. All we need to do is go back to basics & note that its construction is in line with all the other 18th C examples & nothing like the ones from the 1680-1720s.

 

[CRUSADER]

PS. As far as my research goes there are no source material that backs up their theory.

 

[Aureus]

I do, because they don't specialise. Your welcome to believe whatever you like. Mistakes by the British Museum are more common than you know.

Back to the 65th, I'm thinking 1821-31. But its worth further research as its not one I've seen. I think that was your find of the day not the cuff-link which are a far more common find.

Personally I prefer the cufflink as I have never found a silver button before especially an early one. But the regiment button is sure a great find as well. Never seen this type neither.

 

[trapperart]

Congrats on some nice finds

 

[Aureus]

That cufflink is one of the coolest things I've ever seen, let alone seen dug...and watching it transform from a tiny pewter-looking mess to that arrestingly pretty piece of deep history is a joy.

I'm still trying to get a full picture of the rarity of this piece and its route to New France. I'm know I'm a tad biased, but just based on what we already know I think a silver 17th century cufflink with that kind of political history, in that condition, 800 miles from the mid Atlantic colonies?? That's a banner in my book.

We're both low-key on Tnet stuff, but I have to say this: you dig things routinely that most people won't ever, and that can make it hard for some to relate to these objects. But your work ethic, research, and skill are the perfect fit for a landscape with almost 400 years of European settlement. Seeing all that dirt-covered history was inspiring.

Thank you Ken. Awesome hunting time. No matter what colonial period this cufflink is from it sure is a great find!

 

[Aureus]

Congratualtions on the cool relics!

Thank you.

 

[Scrappy]

Excellent button. I've been quietly watching to see where the debate went but I like your conclusion that it was used to celebrate marital unions (perhaps party favors?). Perhaps another indicator of it not being a CII wedding button is the price realized online. Maybe there was just enough of a shadow of doubt...

But the button itself is cooler than pretty much any button I have found. Beautiful!! Great 65th as well

 

[Aureus]

Great finds as usual.
Any area with that quality of buttons must have had a lot of other interesting things, any coins on your hunts

Thank you. Yes the buttons were pretty nice this week end. Coin wise got a few usual Bank of Montreal tokens 1837 and a pretty unusual thick copper I won't be able to ID

 

[Aureus]

That's a really cool button! I don't get out enough to find the really good stuff. Good luck and HH!

Thank you.

 

[Aureus]

Great looking buttons the Sapper and Miners came out great. Congrats on the Charles ll silver link it's a beauty. You're having some really great hunts, well done.

Thank you. Even thou the connection between Charles and this cufflink is debated really like this find.

 

[Aureus]

Awesome finds for sure. Congrats!!! [emoji106]

Thank you.

 

[Aureus]

Dang man, those finds are really delicious. The Charles button is ultra cool, and I'm a sucker for those artillery buttons.

Thank you. They do look great,especially the large ones.

 

[Beepbeep13]

This is RhodeHog's cufflink and he was able to identify it further using Pepperj's Colchester Museum link

Your friends from MetalDetectorS.com

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[CRUSADER]

This is RhodeHog's cufflink and he was able to identify it further using Pepperj's Colchester Museum link

Your friends from MetalDetectorS.com View attachment 1454295

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The Colchester Site has a massive health warning, many errors, so not the perfect place to take an ID.

One thing to consider that I didn't mention because I thought it obvious, but why use at least 10 different style of Crown's if your pinning it to 1 King & 1 event? None of which look anything like Charles II Crown.