Amazing finds at a hunted out school

[bspkayaker]

Hey everyone, it has been some time since I have posted last, but need your help on these buttons I just found at a school that has been hammered to death, so I thought anyway. I
have not cleaned anything as of yet as I am not sure if the buttons are rare or valuable. If anyone can I.D. these, please do!

I first pulled up and walked to a spot and found this below (first hole).


Next couple of holes, I pulled this. It still has a little gem in the middle.


Then I had that gut feeling for some reason that I needed to go over to the other side of the field as there were some very old trees around. Just a hunch, that really paid off

The first hole I dug and I pull out three of the below buttons, I couldn't believe it!



Then about ten minutes later, I pull this "GOLD" Button! It certainly has some weight to it.



Below is the rest that I pulled out in the same area. All within an hour or so.




A day detecting like this was well needed! It has been slim pickings this year.

Thank for looking, Brian

 

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[smokeythecat]

A comment on the 85th button. While it is of a French style, the French 18th Century buttons (pre 1790) never had a loop shank, as this example does. The face is known as a "broken circle" design, and was used by British and French armies. The French buttons always have the "birdcage" or "turret back" shank. There were three models of "birdcage" or "turret back" shanks. First, there is a round cylinder integral to the button, coming out of the back and they simply drilled two holes in it for the thread. These buttons are almost always made of pewter. Second type is, well, imagine an igloo sitting on the back of the button, these were also made in pewter. They drilled, again, two holes in the igloo for the shank. The most common type is a brass button which appeared probably around 1778 or 1779. Brass with a more open "bird cage" on the back. Imagine the igloo scooped out for the threads. In the 1790's styles started to change and the shank appeared, especially on the early "Republic Francais" buttons from the first few years of the new French Republic.

If it were British, you would expect an enlisted Man's button to have a "boss" on the back. A boss is a round clump of pewter in the center, with an iron shank imbedded in it. Almost of all of the regulars (enlisted) used this type. Some Loyalist units had regular shanks. FYI

 

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[coinman123]

I found a pewter button today, but half of it rotted away. Yours held up very good!

 

[Iron Patch]

...

 

[bspkayaker]

Ok... both of these pics are said to be the USA button back, right? They sure appear to look different. It looks more like the USA shank (first posted - left side) is actually the same as the 35th type? Sure seems like there's something not right here. In other words both the 35th and USA are reproductions, and the last picture of the loop shank is from another button. Am I wrong?

The USA button


The 34th button


The 58th button


The Thistle button

 

[bspkayaker]

Okay, I do have to say and without trying to be too defensive. I don't want to get into something isn't right crap. I don't have any reason to BS this board and never BS anything I do. If that is not your intention, then my apologies. Below is the pics side by side front and back. I highly respect peoples opinions on here. If they are repros then fine, but one thing I would never do on this is put up BS

Iron Patch, I do highly respect your opinion,

The USA button
View attachment 1482770 View attachment 1482771

The 34th button
View attachment 1482773 View attachment 1482772

The 58th button
View attachment 1482774 View attachment 1482775

The Thistle button
View attachment 1482779

Thanks Brian

 

[Iron Patch]

Okay, I do have to say and without trying to be too defensive. I don't want to get into something isn't right crap. I don't have any reason to BS this board and never BS anything I do. If that is not your intention, then my apologies. Below is the pics side by side front and back

The USA button

Jesus! If you don't want to find out what your buttons REALLY are then don't ask!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It's me who is sick of putting up with the crap of people like you who post and ask for help, but at the first hint of something negative get upset. What do you want.... the truth or to be told just want you want to hear! I'm done wasting my time.

"Hey everyone, it has been some time since I have posted last, but need your help on these buttons"

 

[bspkayaker]

...

 

[joncooper1986]

Nice finds Brian! Let me know if you need any help, all that hole digging is a lot of work for one person

 

[toasted]

Im glad I dont find early military buttons. Seems to be a lot of confusion out there. Pewter buttons are always wasted in my soil anyway

 

[smokeythecat]

A comment on the 34 button. It is very possible it is a contemporary (Continental Army) copy of a real 34th Regiment of Foot button, especially if it is made of lead. The American army did make copies, don't know why, of some of the British buttons and are noted to have been found in their camps from 1779-1782. I found a camp made 3rd Mass. Regt. button in one of those camps once upon a time ago made of lead. Get the history of the place you are digging.

 

[vferrari]

Jesus! If you don't want to find out what your buttons REALLY are then don't ask!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It's me who is sick of putting up with the crap of people like you who post and ask for help, but at the first hint of something negative get upset. What do you want.... the truth or to be told just want you want to hear! I'm done wasting my time.

"Hey everyone, it has been some time since I have posted last, but need your help on these buttons"

You must have missed the (admittedly buried) "I respect your opinion, Iron Patch" follow up comment above by the OP. Guess that's now out the window... Thought it strange you edited out your original post then flew off the handle at the OP. Just trying to figure out what's really going on here. Hate to see it all go downhill fast like this.

 

[mascotwoods]

I was just thinking that these might be "show and tell" from grandmas button jar. No camp needed. Just think being a young boy finding something like these at grandmas and wanting to take them to school.

Awesome finds!!!

 

[trapperart]

I know there is some confusion with this post, but I've been there before with my 5 dollar gold coin. I'm voting banner on the USA button, if I had dug it I would want to see it up top. Congrats on your finds and thanks for sharing.

 

[Iron Patch]

You know what, this has nothing to do with asking for your help, so don't put it there!

You started with this "something is not right here" like I was BS you. But you can't understand that through your arrogance. I accept your opinion that they just might be reproduced, but you started with the questioning of what I posted. I get along with everyone so don't throw that crap on me bud. I appreciate opinions, advise, etc, but once the dialog becomes "something is not right here" of course I have something to say.

I said something is not right for all of the following reasons. Your 34th appears to be a reproduction, the 85th doesn't make sense to me, and based on the face of the thistle (I don't think you posted the back) I would lean towards the reproduction side for it. The USA looks much better, so to me it seems like there is quite a mix happening here. With that in mind, you posted the same back of the 34th twice with different pictures. But then you posted an entirely different picture of the USA at the bottom of the page... so it seemed like you were adding another picture of a back of a button that wasn't the USA to fit what we were expecting to see. So I was 100% justified in saying.... something isn't right, because it wasn't! You messed up your pictures.

 

[Iron Patch]

You must have missed the (admittedly buried) "I respect your opinion, Iron Patch" follow up comment above by the OP. Guess that's now out the window... Thought it strange you edited out your original post then flew off the handle at the OP. Just trying to figure out what's really going on here. Hate to see it all go downhill fast like this.

Well I shall help you figure it out, just read my above post. I said something wasn't right, and there wasn't. Did he ask me what was wrong, no, said he doesn't want to get into this crap and made it seem like I was here to troll the thread and not help.


As for the editing, after I posted a friend of mind caught that the OP messed up his pictures and posted the 34th back twice. So I edited my post seeing it was a simple mistake and the bottom pic of the USA button was obviously the correct one. I edited my post because it was not correct, because it was based on the OP's mistake. I thought it was gone so didn't expect a reply. Now you know.

 

[bspkayaker]

Well I shall help you figure it out, just read my above post. I said something wasn't right, and there wasn't. Did he ask me what was wrong, no, said he doesn't want to get into this crap and made it seem like I was here to troll the thread and not help.


As for the editing, after I posted a friend of mind caught that the OP messed up his pictures and posted the 34th back twice. So I edited my post seeing it was a simple mistake and the bottom pic of the USA button was obviously the correct one. I edited my post because it was not correct, because it was based on the OP's mistake. I thought it was gone so didn't expect a reply. Now you know.

Iron Patch, after taking a breather, maybe I became overly sensitive, therefore I apologize for my statements, and hope you will accept my apologies. Any errors I have created was not done with bad intent

I am reposting the pictures, front and back, and believe me this is correct

The USA Button


The 34th


The 58th


The Thistle

 

[huntsman53]

I for one, believe that everybody that is upset, should take a couple of long breaths of fresh air, calm down and think all of this through! It is easy to misconstrue the intent of a post as it is just as easy to not convey intent when writing it. It is also very easy to get pics of finds out of order when excited, in a hurry and/or sometimes using a Smartass Phone that seems to upload things out of order, upside down, sideways or not at all. So, for the benefit of TNET, the O.P. and all those truly interested in the O.P.'s finds, please calm down and think on it awhile before posting something that can be misunderstood.

There is the theory that some kid may have brought his Dad's Colonial button collection to school for show and tell and lost them which can possibly account for most of them but the USA button may have actually been lost there. Now I propose a couple of theories. What if the location was a POW Camp or a temporary POW Holding Camp where POW's were kept until they could be transferred to an actual POW Camp!! Or, the location where the buttons were found, was in fact a strategic location to both sides and it changed hands a few times during the Revolutionary War. All of the theories could possibly account for the wide array of buttons. The key here, is research and more research until the clues and facts all come together as to what the site (location) was or was not during the Revolutionary War and how the buttons ended up there.


Frank

 

[huntsman53]

Iron Patch, after taking a breather, maybe I became overly sensitive, therefore I apologize for my statements, and hope you will accept my apologies. Any errors I have created was not done with bad intent

I am reposting the pictures, front and back, and believe me this is correct

The USA Button
View attachment 1483040 View attachment 1483041

The 34th
View attachment 1483042 View attachment 1483043

The 58th
View attachment 1483045 View attachment 1483044

The Thistle
View attachment 1483046 View attachment 1483048

You beat me to the gun as I was typing my post up while you were posting. Sorry but I just felt it was needed!!

Awesome button finds by the way and I hope most if not all are genuine!


Frank

 

[Clevelander]

Hey everyone, it has been some time since I have posted last, but need your help on these buttons I just found at a school that has been hammered to death, so I thought anyway. I
have not cleaned anything as of yet as I am not sure if the buttons are rare or valuable. If anyone can I.D. these, please do!

I first pulled up and walked to a spot and found this below (first hole).
View attachment 1482398

Next couple of holes, I pulled this. It still has a little gem in the middle.
View attachment 1482398

Then I had that gut feeling for some reason that I needed to go over to the other side of the field as there were some very old trees around. Just a hunch, that really paid off

The first hole I dug and I pull out three of the below buttons, I couldn't believe it!
View attachment 1482395
View attachment 1482396

Then about ten minutes later, I pull this "GOLD" Button! It certainly has some weight to it.
View attachment 1482397
View attachment 1482399

Below is the rest that I pulled out in the same area. All within an hour or so.
View attachment 1482400
View attachment 1482401
View attachment 1482402

A day detecting like this was well needed! It has been slim pickings this year.

Thank for looking, Brian

Its days like the day you had that keeps us all going!

 

[bspkayaker]

I for one, believe that everybody that is upset, should take a couple of long breaths of fresh air, calm down and think all of this through! It is easy to misconstrue the intent of a post as it is just as easy to not convey intent when writing it. It is also very easy to get pics of finds out of order when excited, in a hurry and/or sometimes using a Smartass Phone that seems to upload things out of order, upside down, sideways or not at all. So, for the benefit of TNET, the O.P. and all those truly interested in the O.P.'s finds, please calm down and think on it awhile before posting something that can be misunderstood.

There is the theory that some kid may have brought his Dad's Colonial button collection to school for show and tell and lost them which can possibly account for most of them but the USA button may have actually been lost there. Now I propose a couple of theories. What if the location was a POW Camp or a temporary POW Holding Camp where POW's were kept until they could be transferred to an actual POW Camp!! Or, the location where the buttons were found, was in fact a strategic location to both sides and it changed hands a few times during the Revolutionary War. All of the theories could possibly account for the wide array of buttons. The key here, is research and more research until the clues and facts all come together as to what the site (location) was or was not during the Revolutionary War and how the buttons ended up there.


Frank

Hi Frank, you are correct in your post, I was certainly excited and full of adrenaline when posting. I highly respect Iron Patch's experience and knowledge, and did not want this to get to the point it did. I got defensive a bit as I would never
post or describe something on this forum with any bad intent. This did not get to the point it did due to Iron Patch's opinion on if they are reproductions, if they are, I would like to find out. I got defensive once I believed it was being stated or construed that I could potentially be posting with bad intent, that's all.

I am no expert by any means, but I do believe, and as others have stated, that the USA button looks legit. And hope that is the case, if not, well I guess it would be not.

I will leave it at that, I will drop the politics from here and only continue with the buttons and their authenticity or not,

Thank Brian