Colonial tear out round 3 - BATWING buckle, 17th-19th century targets

[Patriot Relics]

Hey guys,

Quick round up from this week digs- headed back to the colonial tear out with Matt and Stef. It seems that I have switched back to the quantity over quality digs the last few hunts, but I'm not complaining. I'll happily dig flat buttons all day with a smile on my face . A few incredible buttons have turned up lately, but I'll let them share the details in their posts. My best find of the day was a nice intact 19th century batwing buckle. This sucker is massive - although no one on the internet machine seems to agree on its period use. Dug a partial last time, so this intact example looks killer in the display.



Cleaned up



This site had to be a tavern given the quantity and variety of buttons and coins. Here's the tombac varieties



Assorted other flats ranging from mid 1700s to 1830s



These 2 were my favorite- a Scottish thistle and scovill backmark and a nice silver wash



The only pewter has an interesting cage/square shank. Construction isn't right for the British although a few 82nd foot buttons did come from this dirt.



Also dug an assortment of furniture hardware



Lock plate/covers



Bit/leather bosses- one nice late 1600s/early 1700s one on the left



Copper and a small silver thimble



This one is a bit of a mystery- oval stone with thin copper wrap?



Possible flintlock frizzen hardware



Heavy duty copper wheel - anyone recognize the manufacturer?



Possible copper coin, looking for help with this one



One more whatzit



And finally the only coin - a 1860 IHP



All in all nothing crazy this week, but it sure beats the office. Thanks for looking and good luck this weekend.

 

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[Ahab8]

Great looking batwing buddy. Looks like amazing potential for a very early piece coming out of there. Well done

 

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[Tom_in_CA]

excellent pix. Awesome history of buttons.

 

[Patriot Relics]

Oh jeez! Now I'm (sort of) jealous. All I got today was stupid Civil War Confederate buttons and hat insignia and bullets and all that trash! But seriously, I would place the buckle much earlier than the 19th century. They just weren't popular then.

It's crazy how the identity of some relics is still debated with all the research out there. The British relic database says 19th, but who knows

 

[Patriot Relics]

Outstanding series of hunts, congratulations!

Thanks Professor

 

[Patriot Relics]

A day of buttons is like that is about as good as it gets. Forget coppers! You found yourself an excellent assortment of buttons Jon. Fantastic bro

Thanks Steve, oddly no coppers for us yet, but no shortage of flats. Did pull a pair of Spanish so definitely not complaining

 

[Patriot Relics]

Good digs Jon. I think the "coin" is actually a scale weight.

I think your onto something Glenn, that was my initial thought as well

 

[Patriot Relics]

So let me get this straight. Are you saying that you are on a 1650 colonial site in SC? Or the relics date back to 1650?

Hey bud, pair of buckles recovered fall in the 1500-1650 range. Could certainly be left over from early 18th century occupation

 

[Aureus]

Great finds! Congratulations!

 

[DirtStalker]

Hey bud, pair of buckles recovered fall in the 1500-1650 range. Could certainly be left over from early 18th century occupation

Thanks I was very confused didn't know who would have been in that area in 1650 colonial wise since Charleston wasn't settled until 1670 and Spanish and French explorers were in SC in 1500's. So I didn't know if you were rewriting the history books with an amazing undiscovered settlement like David Topper did with his discovery of the Topper site on the Savannah river. Hope you see my confusion.
But the finds have been coming out at quite a high rate for y'all. You just need to get back soon and dig the rest

 

[Patriot Relics]

Nice haul.

''One more whatzit ''

I get loads of these in the farm fields. Never really kept them or IDed them, my guess was some kind of internal piece to furniture. But I would love to hear other thoughts as its a WAG?

Hopefully someone recognizes it, dug a few and like you just assumed some kind of furniture hardware

 

[Patriot Relics]

Great looking batwing buddy. Looks like amazing potential for a very early piece coming out of there. Well done

Thanks Abe, such a cool looking buckle and massive

 

[Patriot Relics]

Great finds! Congratulations!

Thanks Aureus

 

[Kurios1]

Loads of cool historical stuff is cool to me. Excellent recoveries mate. Love the way cool batwing buckle. Well done.

 

[smokeythecat]

VMI digger, I have never seen a batwing come out of a 19th century site - unless it was lost a long time after it was made. Basically I think they were made earlier, and lost later. That is always possible, and since they keep everything in the UK anyway, their methodology may be corrupted. If you look at period paintings, you never see the batwings in 19th century artwork. At least I never have. Think of it this way, sitting in front of me are three 16th century intact pieces of pottery. If my house fell down and someone dug it up a hundred from now, would they think we used this pottery today?

When we do serious research, we start with the oldest information available. The artwork of the period we are researching, and later the photographs tell the tale. You'll see the batwings on the 17th century pirates, but by 1800, it's oval plates. and more standardized belt buckles.

 

[CRUSADER]

VMI digger, I have never seen a batwing come out of a 19th century site - unless it was lost a long time after it was made. Basically I think they were made earlier, and lost later. That is always possible, and since they keep everything in the UK anyway, their methodology may be corrupted. If you look at period paintings, you never see the batwings in 19th century artwork. At least I never have. Think of it this way, sitting in front of me are three 16th century intact pieces of pottery. If my house fell down and someone dug it up a hundred from now, would they think we used this pottery today?

When we do serious research, we start with the oldest information available. The artwork of the period we are researching, and later the photographs tell the tale. You'll see the batwings on the 17th century pirates, but by 1800, it's oval plates. and more standardized belt buckles.

I've noted over 10 batwings come from only 19th C context all recorded on tnet.

I now have a buckle book that dates them to the 19th C, like I've always stated. The 18th C is a myth.

 

[smokeythecat]

Interesting. I only have one and it came from a late 17th to early 18th century site. Who knows....

 

[CRUSADER]

Interesting. I only have one and it came from a late 17th to early 18th century site. Who knows....

I do.

 

[Patriot Relics]

Always appreciate the info that comes from these threads. Cru can you post a picture of your reference material?

 

[Patriot Relics]

Loads of cool historical stuff is cool to me. Excellent recoveries mate. Love the way cool batwing buckle. Well done.

Thanks Kurios, dug a partial a few weeks ago but the intact one is killer

 

[Patriot Relics]

VMI digger, I have never seen a batwing come out of a 19th century site - unless it was lost a long time after it was made. Basically I think they were made earlier, and lost later. That is always possible, and since they keep everything in the UK anyway, their methodology may be corrupted. If you look at period paintings, you never see the batwings in 19th century artwork. At least I never have. Think of it this way, sitting in front of me are three 16th century intact pieces of pottery. If my house fell down and someone dug it up a hundred from now, would they think we used this pottery today?

When we do serious research, we start with the oldest information available. The artwork of the period we are researching, and later the photographs tell the tale. You'll see the batwings on the 17th century pirates, but by 1800, it's oval plates. and more standardized belt buckles.

Thanks for your expertise as well smokey, this site does cover the spread for both dates 18/19th century. Just wish I could find a period match... Maybe Cru has one