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Thread: Revolutionary War USA Relic? No Idea, but I Know Its Old!

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  1. #16
    us
    Nov 2013
    NY
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    wowzers!
    FreeBirdTim likes this.
    Instagram: @surroundedbywild

    God Bless

  2. #17
    us
    Jan 2013
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    Quote Originally Posted by FreeBirdTim View Post
    Deep in the woods today near the spot where I found a Rev War era stirrup. Got a low 70's signal 6 inches down and thought I had dug a flat button. Wiped it off and noticed that one side had grooves on it instead of a shank. Then I turned it over and saw a USA logo on it! Looks similar to the Rev War button logo, but not quite the same. It's 1" in diameter and appears to be brass.

    Did some research online, but I drew a blank. No idea what this is or how old. Hoping it's Rev War, but it could be later than that. What the heck did I find?

    Attachment 1562796 Attachment 1562798 Attachment 1562799 Attachment 1562800
    Amazing find big congrats
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  3. #18
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    VA
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    Congratulations
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  4. #19
    Charter Member
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    Outstanding find, congratulations!

    IMHO: Do not clean it! If authentic you have a very valuable find!

    Thought I should add, I was reading about that very coin today in a coin book...great find!
    Last edited by Professor of Engineering; Mar 11, 2018 at 06:04 PM.
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  5. #20
    ca
    Feb 2009
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    BAR "CENT"
    PCGS No: 599
    Rarity: Scarce
    Mintage: Unknown
    Designer: Unknown
    Diameter: 24.5 millimeters, rare exceptions are known on large, oval planchets
    Metal content:
    Copper - 100%

    Weight: 84 grains (5.44 grams)
    Edge: Plain
    Mintmark: None
    Images courtesy of Ron GuthVarieties:
    Normal Planchet
    Broad Planchet
    Overstruck on an India (Bengali Presidency / Prinsep Coinage) 1/2 Anna
    Notes:
    The Bar "Cents" first appeared in the American Colonies in 1785, when they joined the mix of motley coppers then in circulation. Their weight was too low to be valued at a Cent, but the name has stuck through use and tradition (in fact, the weight is almost identical to the U.S. Half Cents of 1795 and later years). The obverse copies the U.S.A. monogram seen on pewter buttons worn on the uniforms of Continental soldiers. The reverse consists of thirteen parallel bars, signifying the original 13 Colonies. Their simple, patriotic design makes them a favorite with collectors, although they are rather scarce and expensive.
    Bar "Cents" were made in England, possibly at Wyon's mint in Birmingham (more famous for their Nova Constellatio Coppers). Various forgeries exist, ranging in quality from crude casts to excellent struck copies and electrotypes. All genuine examples have a small, thorn-like projection on the far right side of the bottom edge of the second bar from the top (this defect is seen clearly on the illustration above). Electrotypes will also show this projection, so authentication is mandatory.Breen lists two specimens that are known on larger, oval planchets and speculates that they might have been "...some kind of special presentation or souvenir striking", but this is unlikely. Until the weights of these two unusual examples is ascertained, we can only speculate that they are normal strikes on misshapen blanks.The finest Bar "Cent" certified by PCGS is a single MS-66 Brown.Significant examples:
    PCGS MS-66 Brown. Offered at the 2002 New York American Numismatic Association convention by RAAB coins for $36,000.00
    Recent appearances:
    PCGS AU-58. Ex - Paul Arthur Norris (puchased privately) - Ira & Larry Goldberg Coins & Collectibles, Inc.'s "Pre-Long Beach Sale", September 23 & 24, 2002, Lot 80, illustrated, where it was described as follows: "PCGS graded AU-58. Nearly perfect surfaces on this one, a medium light brown color and no signs of abuse. There are a couple of very light specks on the reverse between the bars. Boldly struck and well centered, and truly an American classic in every sense of the word. The diagnostics of the A over the S are clear, as is the small spur on the right end of the second bar, which confirm this to be one of the originals. The first bar coppers were reported in the New Jersey Gazette, November 12, 1785 which is likely near time of their release.
    Charles Bushnell attributes this issue to the famous George Wyon III and his Birmingham Mint. The coins were likely ordered by an American merchant, perhaps using a soldiers button for the simple, but endearing design. These coppers were struck at a lighter standard than the usual 60 to the pound, but they likely passed at 14 to the shilling, nowhere near the "cent" value long attributed to these because of their similarity in size to later large cents. Most of the survivors grade from Fine to Very Fine, and rarely are these encountered in grades even approaching mint state."
    "AU-50" (illustrated above). Ex - H. Cuddy, sold in October 1970 - Dr. Robert J. Hinckley - Bowers and Merena "The Collections of Phillip Flanagan, Dr. Robert Hinckley...", November 29-December 1, 2001, Lot 2423, illustrated, "...85.0 grains. Diameter: 24.8 mm. A die crack connects the two central-most bars at their centers...", sold for $5,520.00"EF-45, cleaned and retoned". Ex - Superior Stamp & Coin's "The ANA 2000 National Money Show Auction", March 2-3, 2000, Lot 30, "Breen 1145"Sources and/or recommended reading:
    "Walter Breen's Complete Encyclopedia Of U.S. And Colonial Coins" by Walter Breen
    "The PCGS Population Report, April 2002" by The Professional Coin Grading Service



  6. #21
    ca
    Feb 2009
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    Congrats on the amazing copper, hope it's the real deal.
    FreeBirdTim likes this.

  7. #22
    Charter Member
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    Chronic Patriot/Metal Detecting,it`s My Lifestyle !

    Jul 2010
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    Outstanding find !
    FreeBirdTim likes this.
    I`v been detecting for 49 years owned my own detector shop G.A.P. Metal Detectors here in N.Y.
    See my old adds in Western & Eastern Treasures and Lost Treasure Magazines through the 90s
    I hunt the Sullivan Trail here in N.Y.
    "Success is just Rented, Never Owned and the Rent is due Daily"
    "Its the Golden Rule who ever has the Gold Rules"
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  8. #23
    Charter Member
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    DEPLORABLE

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    Get that bad boy to PCGS for cleaning, grading, and encapsulation.
    Congrats on a super find.
    FreeBirdTim and huntsman53 like this.
    SOMETIMES I WISH I DIDN'T KNOW NOW ,,, WHAT I DIDN'T KNOW THEN,, Bob Seger

  9. #24
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    Based on where the coin was found and its condition, I have a feeling this is the real deal. What a super exciting recovery, the first bar cent I've seen posted. Congratulations.
    FreeBirdTim likes this.

  10. #25
    Charter Member
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    Awesome Find!! Congrats!!!
    FreeBirdTim likes this.
    ...helping to free the environment from lead contamination one bullet at a time!!!

  11. #26
    us
    Jun 2013
    East Tennessee
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    Quote Originally Posted by FreeBirdTim View Post
    Thanks for the quick ID! I never would have guessed that it was a coin from 1785! I was thinking maybe it was a decorative piece mounted to something, due to the grooves on the back.

    I won't mess with it any more, but it is flaking a little on the edges now that it's dry. My luck to find a rare coin and it's toasted. Still a great find, though.
    Rinse it with water, pat dry in a soft towel, then let it soak in Mineral Oil for a while to stabilize it until you can send it off the PCGS to have it authenticated. If authentic, then have it conserved, certified and graded. Congrats of what appears to be one of the rarest U.S. coins ever minted. Make sure to dry as much Mineral Oil off of the coin before sending it to PCGS. They won't mind the Mineral Oil on it as they see this method used all the time to stabilize coins. However, they won't like having the coin drip Mineral Oil all over when it is removed from the packing.
    Last edited by huntsman53; Mar 11, 2018 at 07:03 PM.
    FreeBirdTim likes this.

  12. #27
    Let's get this started. Voting banner now! I don't recall a Bar Cent ever being posted on T-Net. Being a fellow Rhode Islander, I've often taken the time to see what you've been posting. This is a great find. Don't overly concern yourself with the condition of the coin, rarity on a coin like this trumps condition. Congratulations!
    Last edited by Silver Tree Chaser; Mar 11, 2018 at 07:19 PM.
    FreeBirdTim, Kurios1 and 70monte68 like this.
    got Mass Silver?

  13. #28
    Charter Member
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    Do not clean the thing. If it's an original it is worth a LOT. Reproductions have been made for over a century, your best bet is to take it to a knowledgeable coin dealer and let them look at it. Do NOT accept any offers on it at this time. And if you REALLY want to freak out people, the big Whitman coin show in Baltimore is next weekend or the following. The net will have the correct date. It's free, not too far from NJ and you might consider letting a real expert look at it. They will all be there.

  14. #29
    us
    Knowledge in machine struck coinage and colonial through 1800's Relics.

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    Quote Originally Posted by terpfan View Post
    Based on where the coin was found and its condition, I have a feeling this is the real deal. What a super exciting recovery, the first bar cent I've seen posted. Congratulations.
    Same thoughts here. It looks just like all the real ones I have seen, it has the right corrosion for a coin of that age, and the most important thing for me is where it was found. If it were found at an elementary school for example, I would right away say that it is possibly a reproduction brought in for show and tell at school, though the level of corrosion would not be right for any copper that has been underground for mere decades. The condition of this find is consistent with that of most copper and brass items I find that date from the 1700's and early 1800's, which makes me doubt that it is a reproduction from the late 1800's or early 1900's. You have the find of a lifetime right there!
    FreeBirdTim likes this.
    2014-2017 Finds
    1700s Sundial
    165? french liard
    1696 1774 1730s 17?? copper
    1723 irish penny
    1730 KG coin toy
    2x AU 1803 LC
    1722 1/2 Penny
    1779, 1781 Real, ? 1 Real
    NJ Copper 1786
    1805,1838 LC
    26 Coppers 17 colonial
    175 1720-1850 buttons
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    1906 1912 1934 dog Lics
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    http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/ge...ns-relics.html

  15. #30
    Charter Member
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    Detect smarter, not harder.

    Mar 2014
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    Holy Schnikies Tim! You got yourself a dynamite find. Never heard of one dug before
    FreeBirdTim likes this.


    "Take the detecta-drama elsewhere - I'm just here to dig!"


    Running totals:

    Hammered Silvers - 2
    Hammered Coppers - 1
    Milled Spanish Silver - 14
    Transitional US State Coppers - 9
    United States Cent/Half cent Coppers - 131
    British & Other colonial Coppers - 107
    Slick coppers - too painful to talk about
    Silver Coins - Well over a 1000

    Favourite Finds:
    1665 1-reale Spanish Cob
    Revolutionary War stirrup
    1812 2nd Regiment Artillarists pewter button
    1695 Willam 3rd Halfpenny in excellent condition
    G.W. Inagural Buttons - 6 Point Estoile cuff variety
    Love token etched on 1859 seated Dime
    1831 Louis Phillippe 1st - 5 Franc
    1783 Nova Constelatio, Crosby-3C &. Crosby-1B
    1749 Regal King George II Farthing
    1776 Counter King George iii





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