🥇 BANNER Revolutionary War USA Relic? No Idea, but I Know It's Old!

[FreeBirdTim]

Deep in the woods today near the spot where I found a Rev War era stirrup. Got a low 70's signal 6 inches down and thought I had dug a flat button. Wiped it off and noticed that one side had grooves on it instead of a shank. Then I turned it over and saw a USA logo on it! Looks similar to the Rev War button logo, but not quite the same. It's 1" in diameter and appears to be brass.

Did some research online, but I drew a blank. No idea what this is or how old. Hoping it's Rev War, but it could be later than that. What the heck did I find?

 

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[CRUSADER]

Good God what a find! I logged in just to reply to this thread. Congratulations! Never, ever have I seen one of these dug and posted. Good Lord, that's amazing!

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/what/95534-1785-bar-cent-who-can-help-me.html

At #23;
http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/coins/722-whats-most-valuable-coin-youve-ever-discovered.html

 

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[Ahab8]

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/what/95534-1785-bar-cent-who-can-help-me.html

At #23;
http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/coins/722-whats-most-valuable-coin-youve-ever-discovered.html

I’m glad you found that. I’d seen it before but couldn’t remember what is was under. That example is in fantastic condition and clearly shows the the characteristics of a genuine bar copper. I have a microscope with adjustable LEDs that has the ability to take images that can enhance certain details and show characteristic not seen with the naked eye. This would likely highlight some details to help prove or disprove if this is from 1785

 

[Ahab8]

I kind of forgot I have it. Haven’t used it in quite some time. But here’s a few quick examples of what it can do

 

[CRUSADER]

#Ahab.
Those 2 posts just prove that 1 fake & 1 real deal has been posted in the past so using probability is a little irrelevant.(otherwise 100s more real ones would be posted to equal out the 1 fake)

 

[Molewacker]

I'm so happy when someone here gets a incredible find! Congrats!!!!

 

[FreeBirdTim]

Those 2 posts just prove that 1 fake & 1 real deal has been posted in the past so using probability is a little irrelevant.(otherwise 100s more real ones would be posted to equal out the 1 fake)

The fake one wasn't dug. He never stated that in the thread. He just said he was going through his coins and spotted that one.

Probability comes into play in my book. If every find I've dug has been late 1700's or early 1800's, why would there be a counterfeit coin from the 1860's there? As I stated before, I'm a mathematical person. What are the odds of a coin from 1785 being deep in the woods near a 1700's cellar hole? Damn good. What are the odds of an 1862 counterfeit being lost at that spot. Slim and none. If someone bought this coin in 1862, they knew it was a fake and wanted it for their collection, not to spend. Why would they be carrying it around in their pocket walking in the woods? Doesn't make sense to me...

 

[FreeBirdTim]

1700's stirrup, 1700's shoe buckle frame, 1700's knee buckle, six 1700's and early 1800's flat buttons, 1862 counterfeit bar cent. Sorry, not buying it.

 

[ecmjamsit]

Oh, it is definitely real. I think I would get a serious pulse induction detector and hit the place really hard. Dig every thing there. Grid it off. Treat the site like an archaeology expedition. You are going to find more relics!

 

[FreeBirdTim]

Thanks, ecmjamsit! It's a very special place. Haven't found jack squat at the cellar hole (too obvious), but lots of signals nearby. The surrounding area is full of nails, chunks of a large bean pot (I think) and lots of mystery iron relics too far gone to identify. I may have to spring for a sniper coil to get in between all the iron signals. But I need to do it ASAP. This place is heavily wooded and will become too overgrown to detect by the end of May.

As soon as this 16 inches of snow gets down to 6 inches or so, I'll be headed back there! The snow's only painful to my knees until they go numb! LOL!

 

[CRUSADER]

The fake one wasn't dug. He never stated that in the thread. He just said he was going through his coins and spotted that one.

Probability comes into play in my book. If every find I've dug has been late 1700's or early 1800's, why would there be a counterfeit coin from the 1860's there? As I stated before, I'm a mathematical person. What are the odds of a coin from 1785 being deep in the woods near a 1700's cellar hole? Damn good. What are the odds of an 1862 counterfeit being lost at that spot. Slim and none. If someone bought this coin in 1862, they knew it was a fake and wanted it for their collection, not to spend. Why would they be carrying it around in their pocket walking in the woods? Doesn't make sense to me...

No need to argue just get it looked at before it falls to bits & this is all irrelevant.

 

[coinman123]

I wouldn't use the S and A as the determining factor on authenticity. The example below is in a rather high grade, AU-50, and I can barely see any evidence of the A going over the S. Now add heavy corrosion to a coin like this and it would be nearly impossible to see if the A goes over the S.

 

[CRUSADER]

I wouldn't use the S and A as the determining factor on authenticity. The example below is in a rather high grade, AU-50, and I can barely see any evidence of the A going over the S. Now add heavy corrosion to a coin like this and it would be nearly impossible to see if the A goes over the S.
View attachment 1564319

So why is the discussion continuing at this stage?

 

[huntsman53]

So why is the discussion continuing at this stage?

Probably because of the folks that question the coin's authenticity and/or stating that they believe it is a counterfeit! Why doesn't everyone take a seat and wait for FreeBirdTim to get the coin checked out by PCGS before condemning the O.P.'s find. There is too much of that negativity on this website which causes folks to leave TNET or shy away from it.

 

[CRUSADER]

Probably because of the folks that question the coin's authenticity and/or stating that they believe it is a counterfeit! Why doesn't everyone take a seat and wait for FreeBirdTim to get the coin checked out by PCGS before condemning the O.P.'s find. There is too much of that negativity on this website which causes folks to leave TNET or shy away from it.

No negativity here, only realism. So I totally agree, not judgement should be made until an expert touched it. ARE U AN EXPERT?

 

[FreeBirdTim]

Gee, I almost wish I hadn't found this coin now. I'm not going to mail it any where or take it to some coin "expert'. Every time I touch it, more of it flakes off. Nothing will stop that. That's the way it is with old coppers that have been in wet soil for 200 years. I've got at least 5 no date coppers that flaked away as soon as they started to dry after coming out of the ground. I've learned from those mistakes. If they're flaking, leave them alone, put them in a cardboard flip and live with it.

The best way for me to resolve this pointless debate is to dig another1700's coin from the spot, just as long as it isn't another bar cent! LOL!

 

[FreeBirdTim]

No negativity here, only realism.

You want realism, but you ignore the facts regarding the other relics I've found at this location. I'm done with this debate. I don't care whether or not this coin is real or a counterfeit. Not going to sell it, so why would it really matter?

I have all the respect in the world for your opinion, Crusader, but sometimes you push it too far. You're WAY too quick to harp on people, all in the name of "realism". When I posted my Rev War era stirrup, you immediately asked me how I connected it to the Rev War. And my reply was that I just stated that it was Rev War ERA, not from the Rev War. Time to tone it down a bit. This is supposed to be fun. I posted this coin because I thought it was Rev War ERA and a cool find. Wasn't looking to sell it or have a 9 page debate over it's authenticity. Geez!

 

[FreeBirdTim]

I wouldn't use the S and A as the determining factor on authenticity. The example below is in a rather high grade, AU-50, and I can barely see any evidence of the A going over the S. Now add heavy corrosion to a coin like this and it would be nearly impossible to see if the A goes over the S.

My thoughts exactly. The coin that sold for $565.00 on eBay has NO evidence of the "A' going over the "S".

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1785-BAR-CENT-COLONIAL-VERY-GOOD-DETAILS-WITH-REVERSE-DAMAGE-hucky-/222832872851?hash=item33e1dfcd93%3Ag%3AJOYAAOSw-JJafyMg&nma=true&si=D0X9B8DfcZq2%252BWifV5qnFNctl%252Fg%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

 

[NorthernTesoro]

Context is everything in dealing with relics and I have made up my mind. Congratulations to the max! I would treat that as a national treasure, man what times in which that coin was minted, the beginnings of a new nation! Gives me goosebumps! That is a find of a lifetime and you enjoy it!

 

[OutdoorAdv]

Gee, I almost wish I hadn't found this coin now. I'm not going to mail it any where or take it to some coin "expert'. Every time I touch it, more of it flakes off. Nothing will stop that. That's the way it is with old coppers that have been in wet soil for 200 years. I've got at least 5 no date coppers that flaked away as soon as they started to dry after coming out of the ground. I've learned from those mistakes. If they're flaking, leave them alone, put them in a cardboard flip and live with it.

The best way for me to resolve this pointless debate is to dig another1700's coin from the spot, just as long as it isn't another bar cent! LOL!

Think positive... There is always something that can be done to stabilize a dug item. If it is really flaking away as bad as you've been saying, then not doing anything to it could be the worst thing you could do. Perhaps it gets to a point that the flaking stops, or perhaps it continues until its a blank disk... its impossible to know that until its happened, which is why it should be stabilized asap. There is a point that a coin experiences enough environmental damage in the ground, that it should be treated more like a relic and less like a coin, when it is recovered from the dirt. Most coppers I dig fall into that category and I do what's necessary to stabilize them to maximize their appeal to display. I know what I would do to it to stabilize it if I dug it, however I would suggest you send some emails or make some calls to find out what is best for this coin. I can give you some ideas on a person or two to contact if you would like. A few years down the road you don't want to say "I know its a blank disk, but this picture shows it was a Bar Cent at one point and I didn't clean it or put anything on it because coin collectors say that's a bad thing to do".

I personally have no idea if its genuine or not, but I wouldn't care because regardless of what it is, stabilizing and preserving it should be the top priority. Context only means something if you find it within the context of an undisturbed soil matrix above or below items that can be dated. Who hasn't found a wheat cent 6" deep smack in the middle of a colonial site!? Or shot shells deep within a colonial site! People walked on the same ground as the people before them, and they lost things just as the people before them. I've also found coppers laying on top of the ground in the woods where soil has eroded or the freeze thaw cycle has buckled them to the surface. All that's pointless though... just preserve it to stop it from losing anymore details and then have it looked it when its not flaking.

 

[GopherDaGold]

No negativity here, only realism. So I totally agree, not judgement should be made until an expert touched it. ARE U AN EXPERT?

Sprinkled with a pinch of sanctimony.