USA Button!!!

[Lost Signal]

If you will go back and read cannonball's May 4th thread, you will see my comment, where I said, "I'm obsessed with finding a USA button."

Well, guess what?

Went out with mbcuce to a new spot. My machine was acting squirrelly, so we agreed to take turns with his. It's nicer anyway. As soon as one of us would find something "decent" we would hand over the detector and the other person would use the pointer. mbcuce found a plain flat button and handed me the Equinox. I got a good consistent signal and he retrieved it with the pointer. (Clearly, there is going to be some controversy concerning ownership, here.) Keep in mind, we have both been on a mission to find our first Continental Army Rev War button, so when he said "U S A" I didn't believe him and I almost didn't believe my eyes. Still can't believe it.

Together, we found some other interesting things on the same hunt.




Would this size be a cuff button or coat button?


Maybe a PN button? The size matches one that I already had, but this one is pretty rough.


Could this be a ramrod tip? The other end is solid, but it's pewter, which doesn't seem like the right material.

View attachment lockparts.jpg
I think these could be Civil War era lock parts. Not sure.


Notice the crude projectile point at the bottom. There is no "good" stone down here, but Native Americans did make points from the soft sandstone found along our rivers.

 

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[JeffInMass]

Nice teamwork, awesome button- Congrats!

 

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[Blak bart]

Ya...you guys double teamed that one !! Nice work...congrats !!

 

[pepperj]

Congrats on the great looking USA button, a memory keeper for many moons.

 

[mbcuce]

Thanks! It's scratched, but but now I need mbcuce to find one, so we don't have to fight over this one for the rest of our lives.

Don't worry, I'm drafting shared custody papers now.

 

[Relicific]

I agree,that’s a beauty
Congrats

 

[GeoW]

Very nice.. What is a PN button?

Thanks,
G

 

[Thebigd81]

Beauty find!

 

[Lost Signal]

Very nice.. What is a PN button?

Thanks,
G

G,

I'm not an expert on the PN buttons, but here's what I've gleaned:

They're coat-size pewter buttons, that are plain other than a raised "P" and "N" backmark. They seem to have their highest concentration in the lowcountry of SC, but have been found in neighboring states. Some have said that they are associated with Francis Marion's troops but others have found them on British Rev War campsites. When I found one earlier this year (pictured), VMI Digger shared that a couple of years ago a Tudor Rose button with the same backmark was found, suggesting that they date from the mid-18th century, maybe issued to British military. The one at the beginning of this thread was found about 30' from the USA button, but who knows if they are related.

 

[Castineman1779]

Lost Signal
First congrats on an outstanding buton find. I understand in SC ground most butons and relics are not bothered by acid soil. Nicest USA to Be found I have seen. 2nd on the long asked questions about these P/N buttons who made them and what purpose.
I hope today can definitely tell u they are indeed no doubt Brit Navy. I do own the Tudor Rose buton u mentioned . It was found by Wess Thompson in the St Lawrence river near Wolfe Island. It is about 22 mm with a Tudor Rose on the face, full shank on the back with a "P" on one side of the shank and "N" on the other. In Troiani's button book, if u have it , on page, 19 is the Navy button with todos Rose and "Bond" backmark. Elieved to be dated 1748-1775. No doubt Pre war but still Rev War used. Here r some pics . The two large P/Ns ,one with shank and one without are indeed from your neck of the woods. Here r pics and hope this answers the questions of what they r. Sorry my pics came up upside down. Thanks Gary

 

[mbcuce]

Lost Signal
First congrats on an outstanding buton find. I understand in SC ground most butons and relics are not bothered by acid soil. Nicest USA to Be found I have seen. 2nd on the long asked questions about these P/N buttons who made them and what purpose.
I hope today can definitely tell u they are indeed no doubt Brit Navy. I do own the Tudor Rose buton u mentioned . It was found by Wess Thompson in the St Lawrence river near Wolfe Island. It is about 22 mm with a Tudor Rose on the face, full shank on the back with a "P" on one side of the shank and "N" on the other. In Troiani's button book, if u have it , on page, 19 is the Navy button with todos Rose and "Bond" backmark. Elieved to be dated 1748-1775. No doubt Pre war but still Rev War used. Here r some pics . The two large P/Ns ,one with shank and one without are indeed from your neck of the woods. Here r pics and hope this answers the questions of what they r. Sorry my pics came up upside down. Thanks Gary

Very Interesting. I hadnt seen that before. I wonder if the PN stands for Provincial Navy?

 

[Castineman1779]

U r reading my brain as just thought that as well. Few Rev War buttons have backmarks. A few American like Clarke on Penn recessed buttons and only seen on the Naval buttons I put up. With the dash mark does not look look like a button makers name. Maybe others can weigh in . Congrats to u as well on thst hunt.gary

 

[Lost Signal]

Gary,

Now, this is going to sound made up, but I had just walked over to my brother's and borrowed his "Rev War Book." I was reading about the Tudor Rose buttons and decided to look at T-net on my phone, where I saw your post. Troiani's book was open in my lap. Crazy!

The mystery solved! And, it seems as though your button is exceedingly rare. Thank you very much for sharing!

This means that we found two military buttons that day.

 

[Castineman1779]

Yup just figured out what P/N stands for. British naval forces on the lake, Great Lakes were known as " Provincial Marines " established and controlled by the army . P/N - Provincial Marines. I think even Troiani would agree. There u go mystery solved. The Tudor Rose I have found by Wess Thompson and the ones that are plain are indeed Brit . Just typed in Provincial Marines as a guess and there it was. Yup very rare button now that we now know what they are and who used them. Research is great . Congrats on finding yours .they are not in Troiani's book by the way. Maybe now in the update some day. Spread the word .Gary

 

[Donnie B from VA]

Congrats! Both buttons are awesome.

 

[Castineman1779]

Donnie B and partner
I got to tell u this being ided now , if my opinion is correct, is a big deal in the buton collecting community . Thanks to your partner nbcuse I do think the mystery is solved, USA was a great find but this button and I believe now ided is rarer . Seems to be lots found in SC and all I have seen the larger coat size. I think guys should start a new thread to help spread the word as for years the P N buton has been a mystery and I think could indeed be a candidate for a Banner. Of course the experts would need to agree probably first. Let me know if u do and will do a response with now what I just found out. By the way your partner deserve credit for helping me identify it. Did u or he find the PN?Kinda weird we both thought about the same time thst it could be Provincial Army. Let me know. This thread is old now as u know. Gary
,

 

[Lost Signal]

Donnie B and partner
I got to tell u this being ided now , if my opinion is correct, is a big deal in the buton collecting community . Thanks to your partner nbcuse I do think the mystery is solved, USA was a great find but this button and I believe now ided is rarer . Seems to be lots found in SC and all I have seen the larger coat size. I think guys should start a new thread to help spread the word as for years the P N buton has been a mystery and I think could indeed be a candidate for a Banner. Of course the experts would need to agree probably first. Let me know if u do and will do a response with now what I just found out. By the way your partner deserve credit for helping me identify it. Did u or he find the PN?Kinda weird we both thought about the same time thst it could be Provincial Army. Let me know. This thread is old now as u know. Gary
,

PM sent.

 

[lenmac65]

Great button. Nice job with the cleaning too. Congrats.