Indian Head Key Date? (Updated Picture)

[pjroo33]

Today I went to a home built in 1830 and the finds were few and far between. I think the property was previously detected. The only coin worth mentioning was the Indian head I found about an hour in. It was at about 6-8 inches. Maybe the last person there just looked over it or they didn't have a Sovereign GT and couldn't see that deep The condition looked bleak. I could tell the back of the coin was an IH but could not see any detail on the front of the coin. Well after a hot peroxide bath, the coin came out much better than I could have hoped. In fact, it's the best condition IH I've found to date. It's an 1872! I think this might be considered a "key date". Maybe someone on this board could verify whether it is "key" or not.

Also could anybody give me an idea of the grade of the coin?

Thanks for looking!

 

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[pjroo33]

Re: Indian Head Key Date?

This one looks certainly like the Shallow N variety to me. The difference between the underside of the N in "One" and the N in "Cent" is pretty bold--and I'd say that the difference would be more pronounced with the photo taken dead-on in a well-lit environment. I would imagine that this variety is more difficult to distinguish on more heavily circulated examples.

I'm curious to see what the other coin gurus have to say...


Regards,


Buckleboy

Hopefully this is a little more visible.

 

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[texan connection]

Agien, that is one purtty penny

 

[Mr. Cotta]

Re: Indian Head Key Date?

Shallow "N" in CENT is scarce. I would add 25%-30% + to value of the final grade. This find, in my opinion, deserves the BANNER!

I don't know anything about this variety, but if this is true I'd say you are looking at a $600 coin, even with it being out of the ground and cleaned. And that's assuming it would grade VF Details! It seems more like EF to me, but I am sitting in Outer Mongolia with no coin books such as Photograde to look at. If it were me, I would definitely send it in to ANACS. I've had so many coins come back in body bags from NGC and PCGS, that I'm pretty much done with them. ANACS is the "third tier", but they might just be the best company to work with. I've had nothing but good come out of sending coins to them. I sent a 1799 Heraldic Eagle Silver Dollar to them that I won off eBay, and they slabbed it and sent it right back. Go to their website and contact them - they'll send you a free kit in the mail which will include 50 coin flips and a bunch of submission forms. It's really simple to do. I know everyone here (including me) would be very curious to see the results. I also agree that this is banner material! Thanks for posting the reverse - this is one beautiful coin!

 

[treasureguy]

wow, nice find, absolute beautiful coin

 

[pjroo33]

Re: Indian Head Key Date?

Shallow "N" in CENT is scarce. I would add 25%-30% + to value of the final grade. This find, in my opinion, deserves the BANNER!

I don't know anything about this variety, but if this is true I'd say you are looking at a $600 coin, even with it being out of the ground and cleaned. And that's assuming it would grade VF Details! It seems more like EF to me, but I am sitting in Outer Mongolia with no coin books such as Photograde to look at. If it were me, I would definitely send it in to ANACS. I've had so many coins come back in body bags from NGC and PCGS, that I'm pretty much done with them. ANACS is the "third tier", but they might just be the best company to work with. I've had nothing but good come out of sending coins to them. I sent a 1799 Heraldic Eagle Silver Dollar to them that I won off eBay, and they slabbed it and sent it right back. Go to their website and contact them - they'll send you a free kit in the mail which will include 50 coin flips and a bunch of submission forms. It's really simple to do. I know everyone here (including me) would be very curious to see the results. I also agree that this is banner material! Thanks for posting the reverse - this is one beautiful coin!

ANACS sounds like they are the easiest company to work with. I guess they are the ones I will go with in the future.

 

[pookie-princess of rust]

Re: Indian Head Key Date?

they came back in body bags? i don't understand... sweet ih... amazing that it came out of the ground. still wonderful looking.

Shallow "N" in CENT is scarce. I would add 25%-30% + to value of the final grade. This find, in my opinion, deserves the BANNER!

I don't know anything about this variety, but if this is true I'd say you are looking at a $600 coin, even with it being out of the ground and cleaned. And that's assuming it would grade VF Details! It seems more like EF to me, but I am sitting in Outer Mongolia with no coin books such as Photograde to look at. If it were me, I would definitely send it in to ANACS. I've had so many coins come back in body bags from NGC and PCGS, that I'm pretty much done with them. ANACS is the "third tier", but they might just be the best company to work with. I've had nothing but good come out of sending coins to them. I sent a 1799 Heraldic Eagle Silver Dollar to them that I won off eBay, and they slabbed it and sent it right back. Go to their website and contact them - they'll send you a free kit in the mail which will include 50 coin flips and a bunch of submission forms. It's really simple to do. I know everyone here (including me) would be very curious to see the results. I also agree that this is banner material! Thanks for posting the reverse - this is one beautiful coin!

 

[Goes4ever]

I looked at their site and still do not see what they charge..........what do they charge?

 

[mlw67]

I looked at their site and still do not see what they charge..........what do they charge?

They list their prices under 'services'.

To send in one coin it would be $19 plus shipping, or you could spend more if you wanted to get it back faster.

 

[cam9457]

Shallow "N" in CENT is scarce. I would add 25%-30% + to value of the final grade. This find, in my opinion, deserves the BANNER!

I gotta vote this one for BANNER!!! BANNER!!! BANNER!!! BANNER!!! BANNER!!! BANNER!!! BANNER!!! BANNER!!! BANNER!!! BANNER!!! BANNER!!! BANNER!!! BANNER!!! BANNER!!! BANNER!!! BANNER!!! BANNER!!! BANNER!!! BANNER!!! BANNER!!! BANNER!!! BANNER!!! BANNER!!! as well

 

[Mr. Cotta]

Re: Indian Head Key Date?

they came back in body bags? i don't understand... sweet ih... amazing that it came out of the ground. still wonderful looking.

Shallow "N" in CENT is scarce. I would add 25%-30% + to value of the final grade. This find, in my opinion, deserves the BANNER!

I don't know anything about this variety, but if this is true I'd say you are looking at a $600 coin, even with it being out of the ground and cleaned. And that's assuming it would grade VF Details! It seems more like EF to me, but I am sitting in Outer Mongolia with no coin books such as Photograde to look at. If it were me, I would definitely send it in to ANACS. I've had so many coins come back in body bags from NGC and PCGS, that I'm pretty much done with them. ANACS is the "third tier", but they might just be the best company to work with. I've had nothing but good come out of sending coins to them. I sent a 1799 Heraldic Eagle Silver Dollar to them that I won off eBay, and they slabbed it and sent it right back. Go to their website and contact them - they'll send you a free kit in the mail which will include 50 coin flips and a bunch of submission forms. It's really simple to do. I know everyone here (including me) would be very curious to see the results. I also agree that this is banner material! Thanks for posting the reverse - this is one beautiful coin!

Coming back in body bags means that the grading company decided not to slab it due to whatever reason. If you look in their fine print there are about 25 reasons why they might decide not to grade it. The lovely thing is that they take the same amount of time as if they are grading it, and they don't refund any of your money. You pay to ship it, return shipping, and grading costs, and then weeks later you get your coin back in a plastic flip that says, "Sorry." That's why a company like ANACS is so nice. They will almost always grade your coin and put it in a slab and just mark it their net grade and have "cleaned" or "corroded" or whatever also written on the tag. I've never ever heard of someone getting an ANACS coin back in a body bag, although there may be an extremely rare example. It's just a nice option. If you've ever gotten a coin back in a body bag, then you would know why ANACS is sometimes a much better way to go. Especially with a dug coin. A dug copper, I might add.

 

[Mr. Cotta]

By the way, congrats on making the banner! You deserve it with a coin like this.

 

[pjroo33]

Wow... I never thought I would have anything end up on the banner. That is pretty awesome. Thanks

Now I REALLY want to get back out there!

 

[smokedaddy]

Great job on the banner buddy, you deserve it. Very Well Done.

 

[pjroo33]

How much of an impact would a dug coin have on it's grade? I've read that a slabbed coin that was dug from the ground would have a designation of "environmentally damaged". If for example, another 1872 IH had the exact same amount of detail but was not dug graded XF, would my coin with the same exact detail then become at most F or VF?

 

[ModernMiner]

Holy smokes!!! Congrats on a fantastic rare IH, and a banner find at that.
Beautiful coin. Good luck on the grading. Can't wait to hear the results.
-MM-

 

[Captn SE]

How much of an impact would a dug coin have on it's grade? I've read that a slabbed coin that was dug from the ground would have a designation of "environmentally damaged". If for example, another 1872 IH had the exact same amount of detail but was not dug graded XF, would my coin with the same exact detail then become at most F or VF?

Very nice coin!! I found an 1872 IH last year, but mine is not in as good shape as yours is.

I think to get the most out of your coin, you should probably pay the fees/shipping to get it graded by ANACS. If you never think you'll sell it, then leave it as is. Remember, although your coin has amazing detail, that's only part of the formula that is looked at when a coin is graded. Because of the greenish patina/light corrosion marks on your coin, you might expect to get it back with an "environmental damage" caption on your slab. For a dug coin, though, your Injun is hard to beat.

HH,
CAPTN SE
Dan

 

[Don in SJ]

Congrats on the banner and it is a very nice 1872. In answer to your question, I honestly believe ANACS will label it CORRODED or Environmental Damage. I just looked thru untold dozens of previous ANACS slabbed 1872's on HERITAGE Auction website and many coins had that designation that were slabbed by them. They also used the word CLEANED on a lot of them. Yes, it knocked the auction price down considerably on them.

I would go to the auction sites yourself and compare, and see how many 1872's in the archives have what designation on them, so you would not be surprised if you do decide to slab. I agree with Capt SE , no way would I send off and slab if no intention of ever selling it. Even then, I think I would compare unslabbed prices with slabbed and see if there is much of a difference for the 1872s. Sometimes it is better not to be slabbed, depends on the buyers and where sold.

http://www.ha.com/ (Heritage Auction Galleries) I believe to see the full information you must join (FREE) I use it alot as a useful tool in IDing coins and determing rough value, especially since they seem to handle a lot of "environmentally damaged" coins.

Don

 

[Dr. Ace]

That is one awesomely sweet looking coin. Congratulations!!!

Good luck and HH,

Dr. Ace

 

[pjroo33]

Congrats on the banner and it is a very nice 1872. In answer to your question, I honestly believe ANACS will label it CORRODED or Environmental Damage. I just looked thru untold dozens of previous ANACS slabbed 1872's on HERITAGE Auction website and many coins had that designation that were slabbed by them. They also used the word CLEANED on a lot of them. Yes, it knocked the auction price down considerably on them.

I would go to the auction sites yourself and compare, and see how many 1872's in the archives have what designation on them, so you would not be surprised if you do decide to slab. I agree with Capt SE , no way would I send off and slab if no intention of ever selling it. Even then, I think I would compare unslabbed prices with slabbed and see if there is much of a difference for the 1872s. Sometimes it is better not to be slabbed, depends on the buyers and where sold.

http://www.ha.com/ (Heritage Auction Galleries) I believe to see the full information you must join (FREE) I use it alot as a useful tool in IDing coins and determing rough value, especially since they seem to handle a lot of "environmentally damaged" coins.

Is there any way to remove the green patina? Would they consider the coin "cleaned" for the peroxide bath or would they not have a way of knowing. I sometimes think the peroxide bath can cause the green patina and I wonder if it can be removed.

Don

 

[Don in SJ]

The peroxide did not cause the green patina, that was there before the dirt was removed, it just exposed what was underneath the dirt or deteriorating edge. I would leave be what has done, but make sure you do soak the coin in distilled or at least water that has stood for a day and then let dry thoroughly. I know of no safe way to remove the edge corrosion without possibly causing more of the edge to degrade in appearance.

As far as saying cleaned by the company, I am not sure when they add that, since most ground founds sent to them is cleaned in their opinion. I have seen them marked improperly cleaned on silver coins that have been ground found and only water was rinsed over the coins to remove loose dirt. So, sometimes it is a no-win situation. The newer the coin, the tougher they are on grading for corrosion and other defects I believe.

Some coins that are marked cleaned, obviously were put into something that lightened the appearance of the copper, and that I can understand.

The way the companies grade our ground founds, sort of makes me lean more towards, never getting one graded and slabbed and just either sell on e-bay or with most auction companies I think they will take a coin as is (they attribute and grade for their catalog)and put it up for auction.

I have never sent any of my coins to any of the services, and I have quite a few that would do quite well, so I have not experienced first hand the results of getting one slabbed. Since I am more into the colonials and early year large cents, the slabbing of the older coins is not as much desired by those collectors as one would think. I have had my rarest 1794 Large Cent appraised by Heritage(by e-mail photograph) and was not too happy with their language compared to a few other appraisals I got from actual collectors, including offers that were much higher than the estimate from Heritage.

By joining Heritage Auction's after one year I was allowed to submit a photograph of one coin for a free appraisal, and that is why they appraised my 1794 S-19a Large Cent.

Don