Positive ID- Vlack 3-74A 1774 Machin Mills Counterfeit British Half Penny

hogge

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Positive ID- Vlack 3-74A 1774 'Machin Mills' Counterfeit British Half Penny

Worked on this thing for about 8 hrs. Had the ID down to 2. Woke up this morning looked at the date again and could see the "4" very clearly. (last number and only one still there). and everything lined up perfectly. There is only 1 reverse for this year. (the 1784 M.M. isn't even close). So that gave me 3 options on obverses and I already knew which one I had. The "8" obverse has no dot between the "III" and "R" so nix that one. The 7 obverse is "GEORGIUS" not "GEORGIVS" as I have, so nix that one. The only other one was the 3 obverse which I had already matched to the coin so I gave it another look. Matched perfect. Group I Vlack 3-74A at VERY RARE or R-6+, 13-25 or so known specimans. So away I went to a collector friend I know in our area. He himself confirmed it, along with the weight of 6.9 grams which puts it exactly into the known counterfeit weight.(Regals go 9+ grams) BINGO. Coin is being sent to Heratige auctions tomarrow and hopefully will be logged into the Long Beach auction. Coin is also being sent in it's uncleaned form to NCS for a proffessional analysis and cleaning. I didn't want to touch this one. By the way, even though these (group "I" classified) coins were minted in NYC, and are named as "Counterfeit British Half Pence Minted in America", they are classified as "Machin Mills". Something as fact I did not know till I talked to the Rep. @ Heratige.( He is a coin collector too). I know the pics didn't come out good because of all the patina I left on the coin,(I only used warm water), but here they are again.
 

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l.cutler

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Re: Positive ID- Vlack 3-74A 1774 'Machin Mills' Counterfeit British Half Penny

The lettering position doesn't look right for a 3-74A, but may be from the corrosion? There are many more non-machins counterfeits than there are Machins. I have several Machins pieces including the 3-74A, as well as the much more common counterfeits, they are fascinating pieces. Good luck on yours.
 

Don in SJ

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Re: Positive ID- Vlack 3-74A 1774 'Machin Mills' Counterfeit British Half Penny

Sorry, but I agree with l.cutler, the lettering/spacing and Brittania are not close enough to be a V.3-74A.
I've already said on your original post that it is not a Machin's but most likely one of the many British made counterfeits and I still stand by that attribution.
Congrats on the CT copper, I do not think the other coin is a Machin's Mills copper. Again, Red Book is the culprit for so many thinking they have a Machin's Mills copper. The coin does not appear to match the plates for any of the Machin's Mills coins from what I can see from your scan. The coin is more consistant with a typical British counterfeit.

Also, the Vlack 3-74A is now down to a Rarity 5, must remember, as more are found, either in yard sales or by detectorists, etc., the numbers go up and rarity goes down.

Don
 

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hogge

hogge

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Re: Positive ID- Vlack 3-74A 1774 'Machin Mills' Counterfeit British Half Penny

Well guys I guess there's only 1 way to truly confirm it. I'll have to clean the corrossion off myself with 100% acetone and a cue tip,( very carefully), and repost before I send it to ANACS. Thanks for the input. Hogge :icon_scratch: :thumbsup:
 

Iron Patch

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Re: Positive ID- Vlack 3-74A 1774 'Machin Mills' Counterfeit British Half Penn

Maybe it's just the picture but I see very limited corrosion and if that is the case it's as good as it's going to get. I hope you don't destroy it, it's still a Colonial find.
 

Wild Colonial Boy

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Great and congratulations, I have been looking into these coppers also as I found 3 counterfeits, and How can you tell it was minted in NYC

is there a reference book??

please say yes
 

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