New Democrat Bill to Ban Our Rights to prospect and Mine.

[LuisTH]

This is getting out of hand. A new Democrat sponsored bill is being reintroduced by Nick Rahall, that would only allow people without the new permits, to take only samples of precious metals/minerals. Even thou gold pans and other non-motorized sluices would be the only available ways to get "samples" of minerals, and other precious resources, if you plan on selling these samples you still would need a notice, or plan, which means paying new fees to have the priviledge. And even then, you have to give 8% of the gross royalty to the federal government, even if such a person does not make a reasonable profit at current commodities prices.

This will not only affect those of us that do prospecting, and even some mining. It will also affect small to medium mining operations/companies, and will further affect jobs in this area.

Here is a link with more information about this new bill.

http://www.icmj.com/article.php?id=5...ing_in_the_U.S

We need for everyone to tell their representatives we do not want this. This is further Socializing the government, and making it bigger, and bigger.

Apparently the Democrats don't want anyone being lucky enough to striking it rich on their own...

Is this the representative Republic that our forefathers envisioned, and founded?

Here is the contact information to the politicians endorsing this bill, all of them happen to be Democrats.

Contact information for each of the bill sponsors:


Nick Rahall (D-WV) phone 202 225-3452
George Miller (D-CA) phone 202 225-2095
Henry Waxman (D-CA) phone 202 225-3976
Ed Markey (D-MA) phone 202 225-2836
Howard Berman (D-CA) phone 202 225-4695
Raúl Grijalva (D-AZ) phone 202 225-2435
Rush Holt (D-NJ) phone 202 225-5801
Jim Costa (D-CA) phone 202 225-3341
Donna Christensen (D-VI) phone 202 225-1790
Dale Kildee (D-MI) phone 202 225-3611
Maurice Hinchey (D-NY) phone 202 225-6335
Earl Blumenauer (D-OR) phone 202 225-4811
Patrick Kennedy (D-RI) phone 202 225-4911
Ron Kind (D-WI) phone 202 225-5506
Lois Capps (D-CA) phone 202 225-3601
Adam Schiff (D-CA) phone 202 225-4176
Mike Honda (D-CA) phone 202 225-2631
John Salazar (D-CO) phone 202 225-4761
Anna Eshoo (D-CA) phone 202 225-8104
Niki Tsongas (D-MA) phone 202 225-3411
Gerry Connolly (D-VA) phone 202 225-1492

[scoter]

Do I understand this? the bill does not affect hobbyists, really - goldpanners and so forth. It affects those running a mining business with machines. It requires the business owner not to rely on taxpayers to clean up, and requires him to pay an 8% royalty?

That sounds fair. Am I missing something?

[LuisTH]

Do you not understand that you can only "take SAMPLES", and if you find something profitable which you want to sell then you need a notice, or plan, which you have to pay for appart from the 8% in royalties, WHICH YOU MUST PAY EVEN IF YOU AHVE NO REAL PROFIT?

You also must provide AT ALL TIMES the following.

Miners shall create and maintain reports relating to the quantity, quality, composition, volume, weight and assay value of all minerals extracted from a mining claim. Failure to produce these reports when requested by any officer or employee designated by the federal government may result in involuntary forfeiture of the mining claim.

They are also adding tens of millions of acres that we can't mine/prospect.

This whole bill's intention is that only people with a lot of money would be able to make a profit, and will be able to prospect/mine.

Please read the entire article before making any comments that make no sense.

[godisnum1]

I guess you could always trade/barter gold for items instead of selling it...

Bran <><

[Illinois Jeff]

IT WILL BE JUST A MATTER OF TIME BEFORE METAL DETECTING IS ADDED TO THE BILL. NOT TO GET POLITICAL BUT THIS IS WHAT DEMOCRATS DO, THEY TELL YOU ABOUT DOING SOMETHING FOR THE GOOD OF THE PEOPLE AND THEN ADD THE FINE PRINT THAT JUST TAKES AWAY YOUR FREEDOMS. YOU BETTER BELIEVE THAT DETECTING IS IN THEIR SIGHTS.

[Illinois Jeff]

Im not against protecting resources, but when our Gov't "protects" something, you end up losing the right to use it for the "good of the people". It always seems that they have to their hands in the till. Paying royalties and only taking "samples" is their way of claiming whats left. To me it's finders keepers. Should the land be preserved and restored, yes, but if you find it, you keep it all without worrying about the Gov't beating down your door for their "fair share". I am not necessarily opposed to the lucky finder paying to restore the land but we all know what happens when the Gov't makes you pay. There would be extremely high fees to restore the land in question, making it cost prohibitive to prospect etc. They could pull the same shenanigans on MD'ers and say we need to pay to restore grass or fill in holes. Sorry, I just believe that this more of the "we know what's best for you" routine. There is always fine print to these bills or subjective wording that could easily include MD'ing. It's all in the interpretation! I think back to the gold rush. If you hit a huge cache of gold does anybody think you could stake a claim now? Heck no! You could keep a few nuggets and the Gov't would march in and tell you they are taking it over.

[LuisTH]

Do I understand this? the bill does not affect hobbyists, really - goldpanners and so forth. It affects those running a mining business with machines. It requires the business owner not to rely on taxpayers to clean up, and requires him to pay an 8% royalty?

That sounds fair. Am I missing something?

I have been gone for a while but wanted to respond to some people who posted.

Please show me where it says that hobbyists are not affected by this...and do you actually think that BIG companies are not going to be able to pay the 8% royalties, and come up with all the paperwork needed to prospect?... The LITTLE man is the one that won't be able to do so... BIG companies are BIG for a reason...

We ALL already have to pay the government taxes, who in the world doesn't pay taxes?.... Please do tell me.... If you find gold, or if you did find it before this bill you ALREADY had to pay taxes on it... Now on top of that you have to pay the 8% royalty, plus all the new paperwork, which in case you don't know costs money....

In general they are going even after a hobby and making it a PRIVILEDGE for only those who are able to pay for it...

Yeah I know probably a lot of you are making lots of money but with the way the job market is now not everyone can afford to pay these new royalties, plus adding the cost of the paperwork and the taxes that you already have to pay on top for what you find.

[LuisTH]

.................
Income should be taxed the same as everyone else. If you want to profit off public property, you should also be the ones to fix it and police its use, not my tax dollars.

Nothing in that bill sounds outlandish...no free rides.

Added:

I find this part to be funny

"H.R. 699 would completely wipe out all small-scale mining in the United States. Small-scale miners do not have the time and resources to handle the fees, lawsuits and reporting requirements."

No time to run a profit business heh

Do you understand the difference between small scale, and large scale mining/prospecting?.... Big companies will be able to pay for these new bills and regulations and they are the only ones who can make a profit. And pray do tell me, do you not pay taxes to the government already even before this bill was introduced?....

Here I thought everyone in the U.S.A. had already been paying taxes according to what they earn and that does includes if you make a profit even with a hobby....

In Florida people pay 21% -25% and on top of that you now have to pay 8% royalties, and Florida is one of the worse places to prospect/md, plus provide the new paperwork, and a plan all of which costs money...

BTW, do tell me you do not pay taxes even when doing a "self-employed" hobby that makes you some money.

If you like this bill so much do send them a letter telling them you are more than glad to pay on top of the taxes you already pay the extra 8% "royalties", plus you will provide all the paperwork and the plans all of which will cost you money...

And BTW, this is not the America of the forefathers anymore, the rich keep getting richer and the poor keep getting screwed because some politicians think people should pay even more for such a hobby.

One more thing, you do understand that in your plan you have to tell them how much you think is in that area, but if you find later on that the area is not as profitable you STILL have to pay for the royalties as described in your plan, which the bill clearly says if you don't make a profit you still have to pay the new 8% "royalties" plus the cost of the plan, and new documents you must provide.

To the only people that this is a "free ride" are for the politicians, and for big companies which will be able to pay for this nomatter what, and their research team probably can assest the land a lot better than regular Joe and Jane can ever do...

[LuisTH]

So, the gist of your complaint is you cannot line your pockets for free?

You complain about Government with their hands in the till...but, you basically want to do the same thing.

What in the world?... Are you telling me that being self employed and having a hobby which could make you some money that you do not already pay taxes for whatever money you can make from the hobby?... You do know that's illegal right?... Maybe you should turn yourself in since "you probably have been lining your pockets for free it seems"....

Yes, I know in some states you pay less taxes, and in some not as many taxes but you still pay taxes and this is but another tax and in this case on a hobby....

For crying out loud people, you already are paying taxes for ANY money you make even if it is from a hobby... If you are not doing so then you have been breaking the law...

"Free ride"...

BTW, I do not own either a small, nor medium, and much less a large company, but when they decide to regulate this new bill I won't be able to do any prospecting at all since as of yet I haven't found ANY profitable area and instead will be paying even more taxes thanks to this bill so many of you like...

Whenever this is regulated I will probably have to choose between living in my home, or not being able to afford my home and insted just live in the street just to be able to continue with my hobby, and I am sure I am not the only one in this situation the way the job market is right now.

People please, do yourselves a favor and READ what is being said in the bill before responding...

[bigwater]

This thread is 14 months old and you guys are arguing over which direction the head of the dead horse is pointing. The last action on HR 699 was a brief subcommittee meeding on February 26 of 2009 where the bill was tabled. The Senate version, S 796, which was majorly flawed and so out of line with HR 699 that a compromise could have never been reached anyway, was tabled in July of 2009. We're now in May of 2010, and with only 7 months left in the 111th Congress, it isn't going to be brought up again. Worry about it if it's re-introduced in the 112th, but for now it's a non-topic.

[bigwater]

LOL... I didn't even notice that Luis was just continuing the debate on his own without any other feedback. Sorry about that

I certainly don't doubt that this topic will be brought up in Congress again, but I'm inclined to think it'll be one of those that'll go year after year after year after year and never go anywhere. Like the Fair Tax. How many Congresses has the Fair Tax been introduced in by now? Four? And how many times has it been tabled in committee? All of them?Until it actually makes it to debate on the floor it's not a threat, and your politicians aren't going to pay attention to you if you complain because they won't have a clue what you're talking about.