Should we report treasure that we find?

UK Stan

Greenie
Mar 9, 2009
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I have just seen this from the UK. A lady prosecuted for finding some real treasure and not reporting it.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/wor...000-garden-prosecuted-reporting-treasure.html

A woman who found a 700-year-old silver 'coin' whilst digging in her garden as a child has become the first in the country to be convicted of failing to hand in suspected treasure.

Kate Harding, 23, was prosecuted under the Treasure Act after she ignored orders to report the coin-like artefact to a coroner.

A court heard the silver piedfort marking Charles IV's ascension to the French throne in 1322 was discovered by Miss Harding 14 years ago as she worked in the garden with her mother at their home in Tenbury Wells, Worcestershire.

Following her mother's death a short time later, Harding kept the 1.4gram item as a memento until she eventually showed it to museum experts last year.

The silver 'coin' was identified as a piedfort dating from 1322, which, while not of great financial value, was of historical significance.

Experts are unsure of exactly what piedforts were used for but agree they were not intended to function as currency.

While they are designed around existing coins of the period, they were substantially thicker and it was has been suggested they were used as guides for mint workers, or more likely, reckoning counters for officials.

Under the Treasure Act 1996, treasure is defined in basic terms as any single object at least 300 years old which is not a coin but has a precious metal content of at least ten per cent, or when found, is one of at least two coins in the same find of that age and metallic content.

The Act gives a finder 14 days to inform the local coroner of potential treasure and creates an offence of failing to carry out that duty where this is not followed.

The prosecution in Ludlow, Shropshire, serves as a warning to so-called 'nighthawkers', who trespass on land under cover of darkness and sell on any finds unearthed using their metal detectors without declaring them to unscrupulous dealers.


More...


Magistrates heard how she ignored numerous calls and letters from Ludlow Museum advising her to report the piedfort to the district coroner once it had been identified in February last year.

Museum staff then notified Anthony Sibcy, the coroner for South Shropshire, who informed West Mercia Police.

In a police interview Harding claimed she had lost the piedfort.

Mr Edwards said: 'When asked why she had not reported the find she said, 'I don't know, I just had enough going on at the time.'

Brendan Reedy, defending, said, the piedfort was believed to be of no significant financial value.

'We are not talking about something here that is worth anything that is quite important.', he said.

'I don't think there are going to be queues around the block of people to see it.'
The silver piedfort marked Charles IV's ascension to the French throne in 1322

Treasure: The silver piedfort marked Charles IV's ascension to the French throne in 1322

Mr Reedy added that Harding had failed to notify the coroner because of 'disorganisation' on her part and that the artefact had a sentimental value to her.

Harding, who lives with her boyfriend in a flat on the outskirts of Ludlow, admitted having an object that is believed to have been treasure and not reporting it to the coroner.

She faced a maximum penalty of three months in jail or a fine, or both, but walked free from court on Wednesday with a conditional discharge and was ordered to pay £25 of the £300 costs. Harding was not at home to comment yesterday.

Dr Michael Lewis, Deputy Head, Department Portable Antiquities and Treasure at the British Museum, confirmed that the case was the first known of its kind in the country to have resulted in prosecution.

He said: 'This is a landmark case and it sends a clear message to those who fail to report Treasure. It shows that the police and the coroners' service give Treasure and archaeological heritage law a high profile and will take proactive measures against those that disregard it.'

Coroners are the only individuals with the authority to declare an item as treasure and Mr Sibcy will now hold an inquest involving a jury to determine it's status. Once it is confirmed as treasure, the piedfort will be valued.

The only three other piedforts found in the UK were all from France. The most recent was discovered in West Clandon, Surrey, in 2007, and was subsequently purchased by the British Museum for £1,800.

Barrie Cook, the British Museum’s Curator of Medieval and Early Modern Coinage, said piedforts could never have been used as currency as they are were heavy.

He said: 'Medieval coins are very thin, but these are several times as thick.'

The Treasure Act was drawn up to replace the medieval law of Treasure Trove, which required inquest jurors to 'read dead minds' in determining whether items had been deliberately buried - in which case they were treasure trove and property of the crown - or accidentally lost.
 

Silver Searcher

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Typical....how would she know that it would be classed as an Artifact and not a coin :o this is were the Treasure act fails, while I agree with the general principle of the act, certain things should be left out. who in there right mind would declare 2 Eddy pennies ::) or similar, as treasure, ilegal if you don't , it's cr@p

SS
 

CRUSADER

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I think this a little harsh, as someone who doesn't metal detect is unlikely to know the Law on Treasure. Also they argue its not a coin & 'piedforts could never have been used as currency as they are were heavy'. However, it was more token like & could have been exchanged & they have no proof either way, as it was pretty damn close to a coin. So overall, this girl has been made an example of when many true criminals get away with it. ie. those hight hawking on monumented sites.

But in answer to your question - yes I declare all treasure.
 

Iron Patch

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The point is not her ignorance of the treasure act or the coin, it's the fact she ignored a court order (or the equivalent from the museum), and that is why she is being made an example of. It could have been parking tickets, and in many cases it no doubt is, we just don't read about it because it's not a first.
 

CRUSADER

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Iron Patch said:
The point is not her ignorance of the treasure act or the coin, it's the fact she ignored a court order (or the equivalent from the museum), and that is why she is being made an example of. It could have been parking tickets, and in many cases it no doubt is, we just don't read about it because it's not a first.

true, that was kinda dumb
 

renogeoff

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Interesting how she found it 14 years ago, which would put the find right around 1996, the years the law was enacted. I wonder if she can claim it was found before the rule took effect? I also fail to understand (being from the good ol' USA) that something you find on your own property that you are not trying to sell, can get you put in jail.
 

Iron Patch

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renogeoff said:
Interesting how she found it 14 years ago, which would put the find right around 1996, the years the law was enacted. I wonder if she can claim it was found before the rule took effect? I also fail to understand (being from the good ol' USA) that something you find on your own property that you are not trying to sell, can get you put in jail.


Obviously someone said something about her find and once that happens, and the "wrong" people find out, and the ball starts to roll.
 

chirper97

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This is the Obama style of government....statist/Socialistic/Communistic

If we continue our current path, we can expect the same absurdities, and loss of freedom in the U.S.

Britain has ceased to be a free country.
 

curbdiggercarl57

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Sad, but this incident that was reported is a drop in the bucket to what happens in the good old USA every day. Here we are called looters, when the Archis are in a good mood. We seriously need to be more like our English brethren in regards to detecting laws.
Carl
 

Iron Patch

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chirper97 said:
This is the Obama style of government....statist/Socialistic/Communistic

If we continue our current path, we can expect the same absurdities, and loss of freedom in the U.S.

Britain has ceased to be a free country.


Because of the Treasure act it is no longer a free country?
 

fathead

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To all my British friends,

resist this evil law! Send me any and all treasure you find. I will keep it safe for you. I will send you pictures of it whenever you want. You will be able to monitor its progress on e-bay. We will show the crown!

Stickin' it to the man is fun on any continent (or island).

Please do not feel the need to thank me, I am only trying to help with your resistance.

Fathead
 

CRUSADER

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Iron Patch said:
chirper97 said:
This is the Obama style of government....statist/Socialistic/Communistic

If we continue our current path, we can expect the same absurdities, and loss of freedom in the U.S.

Britain has ceased to be a free country.


Because of the Treasure act it is no longer a free country?
:icon_scratch: It gave us rights not took them away. Without it the stuff is either the landower or the Queens.
 

hogge

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You guys over there have "Gov't controlled everything". Gov't controlled.......Health care........this "so called" treasure law........and my personal favorite----NO FIREARMS. Now only the criminals have guns. AWESOME.............First time I've ever seen a so- called Democracy, use a "Socialist" (Communist), style of government. How's it workin' out for ya! :laughing9: I guess this way of governing is why our four-fathers left. I really shouldn't laugh,(but I can't help it), as some of these "DIMWITS" that run our country, want to institute some of these exact same things. Kinda nice to have a system of checks and balances where no one agency, or branch of government can obtain too much power. Thank God for "The Bill of Rights" and our Constitution.
 

CRUSADER

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hogge said:
You guys over there have "Gov't controlled everything". Gov't controlled.......Health care........this "so called" treasure law........and my personal favorite----NO FIREARMS. Now only the criminals have guns. AWESOME.............First time I've ever seen a so- called Democracy, use a "Socialist" (Communist), style of government. How's it workin' out for ya! :laughing9: I guess this way of governing is why our four-fathers left. I really shouldn't laugh,(but I can't help it), as some of these "DIMWITS" that run our country, want to institute some of these exact same things. Kinda nice to have a system of checks and balances where no one agency, or branch of government can obtain too much power. Thank God for "The Bill of Rights" and our Constitution.

really well thanks :icon_thumright: (only the time to pay you is a bit slow)
 

shaun7

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CRUSADER said:
hogge said:
You guys over there have "Gov't controlled everything". Gov't controlled.......Health care........this "so called" treasure law........and my personal favorite----NO FIREARMS. Now only the criminals have guns. AWESOME.............First time I've ever seen a so- called Democracy, use a "Socialist" (Communist), style of government. How's it workin' out for ya! :laughing9: I guess this way of governing is why our four-fathers left. I really shouldn't laugh,(but I can't help it), as some of these "DIMWITS" that run our country, want to institute some of these exact same things. Kinda nice to have a system of checks and balances where no one agency, or branch of government can obtain too much power. Thank God for "The Bill of Rights" and our Constitution.

really well thanks :icon_thumright: (only the time to pay you is a bit slow)
:laughing9: :laughing9:
 

Silver Searcher

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hogge said:
You guys over there have "Gov't controlled everything". Gov't controlled.......Health care........this "so called" treasure law........and my personal favorite----NO FIREARMS. Now only the criminals have guns. AWESOME.............First time I've ever seen a so- called Democracy, use a "Socialist" (Communist), style of government. How's it workin' out for ya! :laughing9: I guess this way of governing is why our four-fathers left. I really shouldn't laugh,(but I can't help it), as some of these "DIMWITS" that run our country, want to institute some of these exact same things. Kinda nice to have a system of checks and balances where no one agency, or branch of government can obtain too much power. Thank God for "The Bill of Rights" and our Constitution.
Yes we have government control on firearms, that's why we haven't had another Dunblane or Hungerford, and our heath care is the envy of the Western World.....stay on topic >:(

SS
 

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